Green Hair Algae Mystery

[benni]

Hello Everyone,

I have had my 75gal reef tank for three and a half years. I have a variety of sps (5) and lps corals, two clams, some fish (7-w/1 larger tang and 1larger tomato clown) and other invertabretes. All my live stock that is not being overrun by the green hair algae are thriving. My tank has a deep sandbed (over six inches), 131 pounds of live rock with most in tank, some in sump and some in refugium. I have my sump setup with a refugium section that includes macroalgae, live rock, plenty of shells and mud. the refugiam is set up similiar but hangs on my tank and is separate from the sump. I have my sump with refugium area on an alternate lighting cycle as compared to my tank lighting (when it is day in my tank it is night in my sump and vice versa). My skimmer is an octopus 150 and it is in my sump-it pulls about 3/4 collection cup per week. My Ph has remained stable for over two years at 8.5 and I keep my Alk between 3-4meq/l. However, I do have trouble keeping my mag. level above 1300. The supplements I use are the best Bulkreefsupply offers and I also use their CO and phosphate remover. The top off water and water for changes is from a 6 stage filtration system that I got from Bulkreefsupply. I keep the filters changed and this water is also used for another tank that does not have any algae problems.

I had initial algae problems when I first set up the tank because I was ignorant and did not use the proper water. However until this current problem I did not have any algae problems for three years now. The problem first began about three months ago. At that time, I had 2-150MH with 2-54watt t5 bulbs plus moon lights and one of the ballast burned out. Since my SPS' were not growing as much as I would have liked and I wanted clams, I upgraded to a new light system with 2-250MH 4-54watt t5's plus moon lights. The algae began to grow during the time period I was trying to figure out whether to buy a new ballast or a new light system (it was running with only one 150MH). The new light I bought had 10,000K MH bulbs and I ran those for about a month and the algae got worse, so I switched them out about 2 months ago with 15,000K MH bulbs. The algae seems to be growing a bit slower since I did that. As the algae grew, I began conducting an almost daily routine of tests for phophates, nitrates, nitrites, etc.. and did detect a less than .25 phosphate level with everything else testing clean. I did some water changes and began using phophate removers and have not detected any phophates for a couple months now. I have problem solved, problem solved, and problem solved some more and still cannot get rid of the green hair algae. I even bought a Sea Hare and he does not seem to be eating this green algae. I have turned into a saltwater tank "weeder" as I pull clumps of this stuff out.

I don't know what else to do at this point (giving up keeps going through my mind). The only thing I can think of at this point that could be causing the problem is that when I initially set up my tank and had high phosphate levels that the phosphate settled into the deep sand bed and it is now being released. Part of my reasoning for this is that about the time the algae problem began, I had added a sand sifting star, a yellow watchman goby paired with a prawn, and a signal goby and they are doing a good job keeping the sandbed stirred up and clean. Anything you have to offer to help me solve this problem would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Dan

Algae needs fuel to grow, and light. If your lights are relatively new, then they are unlikely to be the problem- MH and T5 globes deteriorate and emit red and orange spectrum light after around a year of normal use- algae loves those spectrums.

I have had a similar problem before and ended up hauling the LR out, piece by piece, scrubbing it off carefully in a large bucket of tank water and replacing it all with a massive water change. You would be amazed at the amount of detritus that came off that rock. Its likely that settled detritus on your rock is feeding the algae and very little of it is entering the water column and becoming detectable.

The proposal above is pretty drastic and a real PITA to do- it took me the better part of a day (My tank is decidedly bigger- 385 GA) It however solved my algae mystery. Make sure that you scrub the rock properly, and get all traces of the algea off. If this works for you, then you need to upgrade your circulation in the tank to avoid a repeat in the future. It means that you are having detritus settle and not get into the water column, out to the sump and skimmer and be removed. A telling point is the growth of the macro in your sump. If you dont need to harvest it regularly and you are having repeat problem hair algae in your display, the detritus is not being removed to the sump and skimmer.

Let me know how it turns out!

 

[benni]

Thank you for your reply Andy. I believe you hit the nail on the head. I have been poking around the forum looking at other threads related to this topic and yesterday I came to the same conclusion as you stated and began planning to get ready to make some saltwater. I think while I am at it, I will pull my sump out and give it a good cleaning as well and your right, I don't have to do any pruning of my macro. For quiet sometime I have had four power heads going (two of them fan type)-I put two on one side of the tank and two on the opposite side and put them on a timer that would alternate every 15 minutes. Maybe that was only a good idea in my head Well, I will get to work and let you know how it goes. Thanks again.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Dan

A couple of points, some anecdotal, some from past input by the good folks here....

Circulation is very important. from questions I asked here, it appears that the best form of circulation is to get a vortex type circular motion going as its the most efficient use of the pumps.(I now use the same approach in my 1000GA reef tank, with considerable success) Make sure that you direct flow onto the obvious settling points for detritus. Try and make 'storming' the tank a regular part of your weekly maintenance, your corals will love you as they feed on the particles it generates.

Anecdotally, its easy to just cut and run from the hobby when things get tough, however the exercise that I described in my earlier post is very cathartic, despite being time consuming and a PITA. The end result is a clean, algae free tank, with new aquascaping potentials. Its almost as sweet as having a new tank. Enjoy it, its all part of the never ending learning experience. :wink:

 

[benni]

I appreciate the thoughts Andy. You have any tips on how to handle rock that has corals attached?

 

[Anonymous]

I appreciate the thoughts Andy. You have any tips on how to handle rock that has corals attached?

What I did was for corals that were epoxied on, I broke them off and re-epoxied them after the scrub down. If they are not able to be practically and safely removed, use an old toothbrush to scrub carefully around them while they are immersed in water. I found that lining the bucket with a fine net enabled me to remove all algae that was scrubbed off and floating in the bucket simply by straining the water, saving on the amount of water I needed. You will be astounded by how dirty the water gets and how quickly too.

You need to do a very large (50%++) water change at the same time. Stir your sand bed in tank and sump or syphon it to agitate settled detritus into the water column and allow for its removal. In my case, as the biggest PITA in WC's was pumping NSW up to my apartment, and not the volumes involved, I did a near 100% change- that may not be practical or possible in your case, but the larger the better.

 

[benni]

I am going to follow all your advice as I plan for this day. Is it ok for me to leave livestock in the tank while I do this? I plan on siphoning the sandbed. I am mostly thinking about my clams, but have the corals and fish too, and now that crazy sea hare (wonder if I should get rid of him??). I am starting to get excited at the prospect of a "relaunch" of my tank and I think I am going to redesign my rock work, probably bring it off the back wall a bit as I think that could be part of the problem, then I can have the vortex effect circulate around the reef. I have my own water filter so I can make as much water as my arms will let me stir.

 

[Anonymous]

Plan your rockwork carefully to try and avoid deadspots, and to make storming your rockwork during maintenance as easy and effective as possible. Possibly start a new thread asking for advice on circulation, others here are very knowledgable. (I'm not LOL) Its important that you have sufficient circulation from the outset, not added some time afterwards. Also, check that your skimmer is doing what its supposed to do, and is adequate for your system- there are many experts here on skimmers.

I would remove as much livestock as can be taken out without undue stress before beginning. Bucket the livestock in current water and do 20% water changes on the bucket using a drip system to acclimatise the livestock while you scrub. Do at least 6 20% changes.

Do you have any mechanical filtration or bioballs? If so, consider asking here for advice on whether to keep them- they are detritus traps and are frowned on.

I have a sea hare (hitchiker on my LR) he is harmless and eats algae very efficiently.

Another preventative measure to take is to keep your kalk dosing high and regular. Calcium readings of over 550 seem to discourage algae growth. This is not scientific, and is from anecdotal observation, and may be coincidence. I dose vodka weekly (small amounts)- a search here will put you on to the scientific explanation of why it inhibits problem algae growth.

Some practical tips for scrubbing the rock... Expect it to be messy- do it somewhere where you are not going to have a problem with wet flooring. Prepare a lot of water, it gets really dirty, really fast. Wear gloves- bristleworms sting, and they are not the only painful surprise you may have lurking unseen in your rock. If you want to clear your rock of hitchikers, dunking it for a few seconds in a bucket of club soda will get all the critters to jump ship immediately (Tip thanks to Lawdawg). Make sure you get ALL the algae off- brushing it out of water masks whats actually still attached. Keep going with syphoning the sand until you have all the nasties out, and if there has been an accumulation in the sand, consider getting some sand sifters, I have the ultimate in sand sifters (topic137103.html) but they may be a bit big for your tank. :wink:

Finally, the macro in your sump is your best check on how good your water quality is, if you are getting proper circulation and removing the detritus etc in the water column, and your system is functioning properly, your macro should grow really slowly. If it suddenly shows a growth spurt, you have a developing problem and need to isolate and fix it.

Good luck with the redo, its a pile of fun, invite 2-3 friends around, get a case of beer on ice and make a party out of it! The results are worth the effort.

 

[benni]

Well, mission accomplished! Finished it all last night and everything looks great this morning. So far, only lost one damsel fish (not really heart broken over it). What and amazing difference this has made. I used a big tub for scrubing (that was a crap job ) and then had another bucket with tank water to give the rock a good rinse in. I placed three powerheads and two fan type circulator's in a way that seems to be producing a strong vortex circulating all around the reef-this with the sump return and refugium dumping in, seems to have a strong current. This morning, I did notice a few very small areas scattered around the rock that has small bits of algae still-hope that will not cause me problems. I also pulled my sump out, emptied completely, scrubbed it and got it up and running. By the way, I took all my pumps apart and gave them a good cleaning. The skimmer is rocking and rolling and since I restarted the tank (about twelve hours ago) I have about a 3/4 cup of brown/green gooiness. My plan is to be very active in blowing the destris off the rock and I am going to check into the vodka dosing situation. Well, off the check my levels and enjoy the view. Thank you Andy for all your advice (I appreciate sound advice rather than hostility and judgement that seems to happen alot on this forum), looks like I have a new tank now!! Now my thoughts go towards preventing this from happening again..

Thanks Again,

Dan

 

[benni]

I'm back. Well, it's been a week and now I am starting to see some algae growing back. Today when I got home today the glass had a thin coat of green. Since I did the "relaunch" I have been storming everyday (sometimes two) with a turkey baster and also using the power heads to blow off the rocks. Interesting observation though-some spots that I missed during the scrubbing process have almost completely gone away, but other spots that are in little cracks and crevices are showing growth. The worst is around my zooantids. I have also been changing out the filter sock on my sump everyday. The socks have been collecting alot and are usually dark inside. This evening I did 10 gallon water change and plan on doing another ten tonight or tomorrow-I am leaning to tomorrow as I will be mixing the water tonight. I am also considering moving up to twenty gallons if I can the water made tonight. I am not sure what to do at this point, but I am concerned that I am on the road to a bigger problem again-maybe I am just fearful of having to go through a major operation again. It was recommended to me that I should look into dosing vodka and I did a search on the this forum, but kept coming up with no results. The circulation set up I have going seems to be rocking and rolling. My protein skimmer has been producing about a cup a day (measuring cup wise). I did a complete round of test two days ago and everything checks out great. Alkalinity is at 4 Meq/L, no nitrates, nitrites, or phosphorous, Ph at 8.3, Calcium at 550, no ammonia, salinity at 1.0253, the Mg is a little low at 1230-i think that covers it. I don't think it can be an oxygen problem as I have an open top taken and my sump is open top as well. I have also been dosing some idodine. Any suggestions on how to keep the algae from coming back would be appreciated! By the way, all my livestock besides the zooanthids are doing well and even better than ever-sps and lps are feeding, clams are happy, fish are healthy. What gets me is that my turbo snails and sea hare don't seem to be eathing the algae. When i had a sear hare back in the day, he cleaned a significant amout of algae and picked the everything clean and there was a lot of algae in the tank-unfortunatly he committed suicide with that a powerhead intake-poor guy was dangling,head sucked in. The sea hare I have not is quiet large-probably 5-6 inches long and fat. What to do next??


Thanks again-Dan

 

[Anonymous]

Dan, lets run a checklist of potential problem areas here....

Lights: Newish globes so spectrum deterioration is unlikely to be the cause.
Po4: reading zero- are your test kits accurate
NOs: reading zero- test kits accuracy again?
Detritus buildup on rock: resolved with scrubbing, increased circulation, storming
Detritus buildup in sand: resolved with syphoning- also, any release should show up in tests.
Macro- is it growing at an abnormal rate? The macro should be crowding out the hair algae- if its not, your problem is probably not in the water column, or at least the water thats being cycled to your sump.

Your 6 inch deep sand concerns me, all I have read here discourages the use of DSBs as its too easy to get the depth wrong and have them as ineffective detritus dumps (too shallow) or create ammonia (too deep) A rotten egg smell should accompany the release of ammonia from a too-deep SB. Again, someone more knowledgeable here needs to chime in on that as I am far from an expert.

CAn you do a TDS check on the output from your RODI? New filters dont always mean you dont have problems. Also, ROs need regular use, stagnant water in the chambers goes bad pretty fast and can create dangerous bacteria blooms (I was hospitalised from drinking RO with a bad membrane) The same applies with carbon, my carbon filter is a cannister type, 2 chambers with a pump. I run it 8 hours a night on a timer. At one stage the pump packed up and it was 4-5 days before I fitted a replacement. Fortunately, I checked before pumping the stagnant water in the filter out into the sump, it was green, stinking and had the consistancy of syrup. I threw all the carbon out, flushed with boiling water, dried for 3 days in the sun, and refilled with fresh carbon.

The use of vodka was the topic of some interesting debate here and wiser people than me were able to show how it facilitated in the production of denitrifying bacteria. I dont remember the details, but the scientists here were happy with the concept so I have adopted it. So far (2 years) so good. In a 75 GA tank, use a really small amount once a week (Less than a teaspoon), I use a capful twice a week in a 1000Ga tank.

Also, remember that algae spores are virulent, the outbreak that you are having is possibly as a consequence of disturbing the original colony. Keep up the WCs, keep circulation up and you should see it settle. Is it possible that you may be overfeeding your tank?

I had some success with an algae problem some years ago by jucking up my calcium levels, on the suggestion of a LFS. I have no idea of the scientific justification for it, so it may just be voodoo, but I pumped up the calc to over 650 and the algae went away. (It may have been unrelated). I now suppliment my kalk stirrer with the Kalk flakes that are now available.

Finally, some pics may be necessary to rope in some other support from the more experienced and knowledgable here. Is there algae on your sand?
Keep at it, it will get resolved. The cause is somewhere in the detail that we are missing here, it will become apparent.

 

[benni]

Here are the answers to all your questions quoted below.

The macro in my refugium is fairly jam-packed. I noticed a lot of detritus in it, so I did a little storming in it, but am now considering taking it off the tank and cleaning it all out and place it back on the tank. The Macro in my sump growing fairly steadily as well. However, when I just checked it, there was about an 1/8th of the total macro yellowed and when I tried to pull the yellow macro out, it was mushy and mostly disintegrated. This yellow is a new development that I have never seen before and it must have occured in the last three days. Hair algae is not crowding out macro-actually none present in the sump and just a little in the refugium.

The sandbed-I took a few measurements and I found and average of 4 1/2 inches (must have shrunk over time). I just syphoned a couple of turkey basters full from the sand bed and it definetly has a sulfar rotten egg like odor to it. No algae growing on the sand-lot's of small critters living in it that are sending up little red tentacles. Sandsifting star seems happy and is burrowing in the sand.

RO/DI system-TDS is Zero. Also, I supply topoff water for someone elses tank (with a similiar type of set up as mine) and there are no algae problems.

Feeding-I am feeding the tank very little-only feeding the fish a small amount every other day right now as I wanted to be able to rule this out after the overhaul.

Calcium is above 550-my test only goes that high.

Water testing-I used my phospate test kit and determined it was invalid-it is old and every reading I got was a color completely off the spectrum of what the color chart had on it. So, I borrowed a phosphate test kit as well as an entire series of tests. I did a round of tests with the borrowed test kits and mine. Everything checked out fine except the phophate. I got strange readings from testing the water from my tank-it showed a yellow color that was close, but not close enough to make me confident as compard to the zero reading on the color chart-which was a pale green. So, I did some comparison tests. I tested the water I prepared for a water change and it showed the same reading as the water from my tank. Then, I tested the freshwater from my RO/DI system and it had a phosphate reading of .5-this threw me for a loop. I suppose I need to buy another phosphate test. I won't be able to do that until tomorrow. The test I used is an Aquarium Pharmaceutical two part dropper test.

I appreciate your continued support. I have a sense of what needs to happen next, but I would like to hear other opinions (besides mine) before I move forward. AFter I get the new test kit tomorrow, I will report results ASAP. By the way, hair algae in the tank has continued to grow and all the critters in my tank seem to be doing fine with the exception of the zoo's-only a few of them have opened back up.

Dan, lets run a checklist of potential problem areas here....

Lights: Newish globes so spectrum deterioration is unlikely to be the cause.
Po4: reading zero- are your test kits accurate
NOs: reading zero- test kits accuracy again?
Detritus buildup on rock: resolved with scrubbing, increased circulation, storming
Detritus buildup in sand: resolved with syphoning- also, any release should show up in tests.
Macro- is it growing at an abnormal rate? The macro should be crowding out the hair algae- if its not, your problem is probably not in the water column, or at least the water thats being cycled to your sump.

Your 6 inch deep sand concerns me, all I have read here discourages the use of DSBs as its too easy to get the depth wrong and have them as ineffective detritus dumps (too shallow) or create ammonia (too deep) A rotten egg smell should accompany the release of ammonia from a too-deep SB. Again, someone more knowledgeable here needs to chime in on that as I am far from an expert.

CAn you do a TDS check on the output from your RODI? New filters dont always mean you dont have problems. Also, ROs need regular use, stagnant water in the chambers goes bad pretty fast and can create dangerous bacteria blooms (I was hospitalised from drinking RO with a bad membrane) The same applies with carbon, my carbon filter is a cannister type, 2 chambers with a pump. I run it 8 hours a night on a timer. At one stage the pump packed up and it was 4-5 days before I fitted a replacement. Fortunately, I checked before pumping the stagnant water in the filter out into the sump, it was green, stinking and had the consistancy of syrup. I threw all the carbon out, flushed with boiling water, dried for 3 days in the sun, and refilled with fresh carbon.

The use of vodka was the topic of some interesting debate here and wiser people than me were able to show how it facilitated in the production of denitrifying bacteria. I dont remember the details, but the scientists here were happy with the concept so I have adopted it. So far (2 years) so good. In a 75 GA tank, use a really small amount once a week (Less than a teaspoon), I use a capful twice a week in a 1000Ga tank.

Also, remember that algae spores are virulent, the outbreak that you are having is possibly as a consequence of disturbing the original colony. Keep up the WCs, keep circulation up and you should see it settle. Is it possible that you may be overfeeding your tank?

I had some success with an algae problem some years ago by jucking up my calcium levels, on the suggestion of a LFS. I have no idea of the scientific justification for it, so it may just be voodoo, but I pumped up the calc to over 650 and the algae went away. (It may have been unrelated). I now suppliment my kalk stirrer with the Kalk flakes that are now available.

Finally, some pics may be necessary to rope in some other support from the more experienced and knowledgable here. Is there algae on your sand?
Keep at it, it will get resolved. The cause is somewhere in the detail that we are missing here, it will become apparent.

 

[benni]

By the way, today I am going to take sample of my tank water, RODI saltwater change mix, and fresh RODI water to my local aquarium store. I will also be buying a new Phosphate test kit.

 

[Microcosmos]

Just a quick question: is your tank near a window? Natural sunlight can be a hair algae stimulant... I know you said your tank has been set up for 3 years with no problems, so this is just a shot in the dark, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask!

 

[benni]

I appreciate your help, but I am confident in the placement of the tank. I have it tucked away from sunlight as best I can. I brought water samples to my local store and had him test the phosphates for me. We had some interesting results that backed up the report of my test I mentioned above. That leads me to some confusion. Why would the water coming out of my RODI unit have a reading a bit less than .5, while the water I prepared for a water change (same water, just added Oceanic salt) and my tank water have a reading near zero?? I bounced the problems I am having with my tank off him, and he thinks the source of the problem most likely is in my sandbed. I am considering pulling all the rock and livestock out again, give it another scrub, then pull out all the sand and replace with new sand. I am thinking if I do this, I will just do a shallow sandbed for looks. I don't want to move forward with this though until I get other opinions. Thoughts anyone?

 

[Anonymous]

The sandbed-I took a few measurements and I found and average of 4 1/2 inches (must have shrunk over time). I just syphoned a couple of turkey basters full from the sand bed and it definetly has a sulfar rotten egg like odor to it.

Dan, sorry for the delay, I dont have a lot of spare time at the moment...

Sounds like you have a sandbed problem, search the forum for threads on DSBs and look at the problems that they can cause. I'd pull the sand out and either clean it, or better, replace it. (Keep some of the original sand and as many critters as you can to seed the new sand) I will have a proper look through your earlier post and see what else I can think of.

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you have a sandbed problem, search the forum for threads on DSBs and look at the problems that they can cause. I'd pull the sand out and either clean it, or better, replace it. (Keep some of the original sand and as many critters as you can to seed the new sand) I will have a proper look through your earlier post and see what else I can think of.

Reading all that's been posted I'd also say replacing the bed is the next logical step. Really, it can be done in a day if you've enough containers to hold the water and critters. I use the rubbermaid 25 gallon storage tubs, they work great and are strong enough to be filled about 1/2 way with water-provided you dont move them when they are full!

 

[benni]

Done. Have the sandbed changed out. I went with 50 pounds of small argonite-20 pounds of that was live. Gave all the rock another scrub while I was at it. Right now, the tank looks beautiful and everything seems happy with no casualities. The zoo's opened up already, which they haven't been for a couple of weeks-probably longer since I could not see them with all the algae :? I appreciate everyone's help along the way and if you have any advice on how to keep things going in a good direction, please let me know. There are still some small little pockets of algae around and the zoo's still have some growing in them, this worries me a bit.

 

[Anonymous]

Good to hear Dan. once your parameters are in sync- which they should be now, the algae should fade off the scene in a while. The idea with the macro in your fuge is to have it compete for any available nutrients that would normally feed problem algae in the display. You may want to consider lighting your refugium with a plant friendly spectrum or a normal domestic incandescent bulb, that way you will give the macro a head start at removing any algae fuel.

At this point in time, i feel we deserve some PICS!!!! :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[benni]

Here are three pics from the day after the relaunch (last saturday). Since then, the algae has almost disappeared in the zoo's. I have a good light going on the refugium and the macro in the sump. So far, the battle is mine, but time will tell. Amazing how much destris builds on the rock-I am storming at last once per day and my skimmer has pulled 3-4 cups of skimmate since Friday night. I am noticing a light brown slime on some of the new sand. I have been blowing it off when I storm-I figure it is part of the cycling, tell me if I am wrong. This week I am going to order a good phosphate test kit and some more phophate remover-I have some in there, but it has been in there since I scrubbed the rock the first time (about three weeks). I also have some good carbon in the sump. I am a bit worried about my mandarin fish since I don't really know how many little critters made it threw all this, there are some good little bugs in my refug and I have been trying to shake some out of the macro to flow into the tank. Other than that, I can't wait until I feel confident that I have been successful so I can buy some more live stock!

Thanks again for all your help and I will give updates as things progress or (hopefully not) digress. Wow, what a project...