New Turf Results

[Anonymous]

i guess my point can be summarized with what the owner of the tank who did use a skimmerless ats system successfully for many years posted on this thread:

Is there a link to a build thread for his tank? Is his one of the tanks covered in the Ultimate Marine Aquariums book?

 

[ZooKeeper1]

Quote:
I certainly don't think they are trying to say that you shouldn't use a skimmer, or that high DOC levels are good.


We'd have to ask them that they think.

The tank without a skimmer or carbon had the highest DOC levels and the highest N and P levels. The tanks with skimmers and or GAC have NSW levels or lower.

They could suggest to run a tank that way, but I don't think anyone would bother listening to them. Do you think that is a good way to go ?

IMO the most interesting thing they show is how good GAC is at removing DOC.

 

[ZooKeeper1]

Is there a link to a build thread for his tank? Is his one of the tanks covered in the Ultimate Marine Aquariums book?
_________________

That's probably the guy that chimed in on RC, or here maybe. But the ATS in in the closet now.

 

[Anonymous]

Q

TRA vol 3: The use of algea turf scrubbers exclusively to filter an aquarium results in a yellowing of the water by organic leachates from the algae and ruptured algal cells."

&A

Yes but this is when the screens are not removed for cleaning. All current screens are removed for cleaning.

What kind of fool would ever scrub their screen in their tank? I've seen this logic mentioned a number of times now. 'If you're water is yellow...then stop scrubbing your screen in your tank.' I was told that I myself scrubbed my screens in my tank and that's why I had yellow water. Pretty sure I never did anything so absurd and I imagine that you would have a hard time finding anyone who has ever done so.

 

[ZooKeeper1]

I doubt it would be that hard. But the funny thing is that it clearly states that

The use of algea turf scrubbers exclusively to filter an aquarium results in a yellowing of the water by organic leachates from the algae and ruptured algal cells."

But SM just discounts the first part and focuses on the ruptured cells. I guess if you ignore something it will just go away...

 

[clekchau1]

i guess my point can be summarized with what the owner of the tank who did use a skimmerless ats system successfully for many years posted on this thread:

Is there a link to a build thread for his tank? Is his one of the tanks covered in the Ultimate Marine Aquariums book?

no build thread, its the one i'm referring to on page 62, ats might be in the 'closet' but it sure worked good for 5 plus years

 

[ZooKeeper1]

I love how you take one sentence and discount the rest.

Quote:
it remains unclear whether algae are responsible, directly or indirectly, for coral death or whether they simply settle on dead coral surfaces

And the very next sentence

Here, we show that algae can indirectly cause coral mortality by enhancing microbial activity via the release of dissolved compounds.

You're kidding me right ?

Quote:
The tank without a skimmer or carbon had the highest DOC levels and the highest N and P levels


Well of course, they have no export during that test; just tiny bits of growing algae. I've not seen any N or P reduction until the algae is very much covering a screen.

What test, these are just samples from running aquariums. You provided the link after all.


You're really grasping at straws here. LOL

 

[Anonymous]

All algae exudates. But the experience/reports coming in are that much more yellowing is generated by ruptured cells. Harvesting in-system means yellow. Harvest in-sink means clear. Practically and anecdotally speaking. Apparently bacteria are consuming the smaller amounts of exudates effectively, but cannot keep up with rupture leakage

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 8O

 

[ZooKeeper1]

He had me at "all algae exudates". LOL

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time following much of the logic in this thread.

 

[blackcloudmedia]

Im going to change the tone of my replied so I dont hurt cheks feelings. So basically your research shows that Turf scrubbers are an easy way to remove inorganic compound and skimmers remove organic compounds. But the main drawback is yellowing cause by ruptured cells...which are in fact organic compounds. Wouldnt a skimmer be useful in removing those ruptured organic compounds? Im curious now. What exactly is the water chemistry like in your tank. If your not doing water changes with RODI this would help explain why your having to remove so much inorganics. I say this only because those that use rodi makeup water and have low bioloads might not even have algae grow on their screens due to the lack of nutrients to feed the algae. Basically like I said earlier the scrubber is doing the same thing as caulerpa in a refugium, your method just makes it portable. Have you got any research that turf as a species is more effective at removing inorganics than caulerpa? Im not being sarcastic im genuinely curious. :wink:

 

[ZooKeeper1]

There is more going on with just organic and inorganic. Basically if the organic is not alive, it can be converted quickly to inorganic by the tank. And just as fast as that, back to organic. Especially Phosphate because it's in such demand. Organisms store more than they need.

Maybe we can take it slower with fewer questions at a time. Take the video that started this. The video is about how algae releases DOC which cause an increase in growth of bacteria and other microbes on the coral causing mortality.

Here is their abstract again

ABSTRACT
Declines in coral cover are generally associated with increases in the abundance of fleshy algae. In many cases, it remains unclear whether algae are responsible, directly or indirectly, for coral death or whether they simply settle on dead coral surfaces. Here, we show that algae can indirectly cause coral mortality by enhancing microbial activity via the release of dissolved compounds. When coral and algae were placed in chambers together but separated by a 0.02 μm filter, corals suffered 100% mortality. With the addition of the broad-spectrum antibiotic ampicillin, mortality was completely prevented. Physiological measurements showed complementary patterns of increasing coral stress with proximity to algae. Our results suggest that as human impacts increase and algae become more abundant on reefs a positive feedback loop may be created whereby compounds released by algae enhance microbial activity on live coral surfaces causing mortality of corals and further algal growth.

So is this study pro algae or not ? Does it prove that low DOC kills coral, or that algae does ?

 

[blackcloudmedia]

Maybe our problem here is we're saying "algae..is algae...is algae" Are we talking about macroalgae in refugeums...hair algae ON the coral base, or an SPS in a bubble algae outbreak. Theres a lot of factors at work here. What if its just a certain species of algae that causes bacteria problems. Surely the "on land" variety of plants emit different things. Take tabbacco and tommatoes. Both are nightshades yet are vastly different. Perhaps one day we will discover that the strange phenomenon of RTN was caused by halimeda all along, or caulerpa...or turf. Who knows. All I know is my refugium has been doing its job very well and Im not going to throw a wrench into it without very indepth research and peer review.

Let me rephrase. I wont set up a turf on my sps tank. I will for the sake of this thread set up two 10 gallon tanks with some sacrificial live rock. Unfortunately Im short on corals I would be willing to put through this. I have plenty of aiptasis but I dont think they would classify as a "sensitive" species lol. I might even go as far as to set up three tanks. One skimmer, one turf, and one halimeda. What exactly would qualify as a "control" tank though? Wouldnt the control tank have to use one of these methods were trying to study? lol

 

[ZooKeeper1]

Different types of algae were used. Turf types were the worst. And the algae is adjacent to the coral. Right next to it.

 

[ZooKeeper1]

Pic of various sponges inside a cave in my tank. Tank has skimmer, GFO/GAC, and Chaetomorpha.

Pic of baby banded Trochus snail. Broadcast spawner.

 

[Anonymous]

I have a truckload of sponges in my tank...at least six distinct species. Skimmer, GAC, GFO, VSV, AA's.

 

[Anonymous]

Adey's 'fatal flaw' is not realizing that a closed system is quite far removed from the ocean re: all of the various interactions/pathways that take place, including alot of the 'feedback loops' that control and balance things out

there are 'sinks' for things like PO4, C, etc that are orders of magnitude greater/more powerful than our piddly little artificially designed/created microcosms have in proportion to their bioloads, for starters

 

[Anonymous]

Today's build-of-the-day is the very first solar powered screen that I've seen on any thread. Lighting will not be a problem with this one. Uses a simple pressurized pvc frame:

I hate to "pile on" to the onslaught of comments, but this is a flood waiting to happen.

 

[chris&barb]

Today's build-of-the-day is the very first solar powered screen that I've seen on any thread. Lighting will not be a problem with this one. Uses a simple pressurized pvc frame:

I hate to "pile on" to the onslaught of comments, but this is a flood waiting to happen.

im surprised that no one has commented that that hose a brass fitting on it 8O

 

[Unarce]

The brass fitting doubles as a source of essential elements, rendering reactors and 2-part additives completely obsolete, as well.