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[email protected]":3rqvmqy6 said:
No, you can keep snails with no sand. I have 5 diffrernt kinds, even nassarius. Coraline will come in time.
Bare Bottom
- Thread starter extremepb319
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No, you can keep snails with no sand. I have 5 diffrernt kinds, even nassarius. Coraline will come in time.
[email protected]":38t7fjg5 said:
It's where you apply a thin layer of sand on the bottom with some epoxy or other method. That way the bottom will look like sand but you can go full blast on the circulation.
WOW thanks for all the information. Really helpful. I love the idea of the faux sandbed. I think im going to get starboard then glue some sand onto it and use that for the bottom. Only reason is so that I can take the starboard out in the future instead of having sand glued right to my glass. And also the board will help distribute the weight of the rock better. I have an old 55 gallon I will be doing this on sometime in the near future so hopefully I can find a camera to post pics of it. Thanks for all the info again. :lol:
I'm actually going back to a thin layer of sand at the bottom of my tank. I've not had the greatest luck with it so I'm going to try a SSB. Mine has just been on the glass and I have had no issues on that front. Tried the "faux" sand, but it was grabbing onto detritus way too well so I ditched that. Tried the starboard, but detritus was getting UNDER it and I couldn't see how that was useful. I really do think in the end, if you're going to go BB, you really need a MAJOR skimmer (I'm thinking this is my problem). Either that or I'm just an idiot when it comes to reefkeeping.
My favorite is BB with perfectly clean glass... looks like a mirror :lol:
A well performing skimmer is a must and no matter how much flow you have detritus will settle, either on the bottom or on the rocks. Frequent siphoning of small pockets is necessary.
A well performing skimmer is a must and no matter how much flow you have detritus will settle, either on the bottom or on the rocks. Frequent siphoning of small pockets is necessary.
Well I should mention just as a heads up, I’ve been researching heavily on this issue alone, and the consensus I’ve been finding with SSB is that it enhances appearance only. Its shallow depth is not enough to make it functional, and as a result it serves only as an aesthetically pleasing detritus collector. 
The reasons I’m leaning towards BB is that both will need detritus removal anyway, and at least with BB you can vaccum it out without worry. Then you don’t have the concern about a nitrate factory in my SSB. Detritus does build up regardless of what's on the bottom, and the only way I’ve found to rid of it on my current SSB is blowing it with a turkey baster which ultimately does nothing but relocate the detritus and stir up the sand in the process. At least with BB you can see where the crud accumulates and vacuum it out with water changes. As mentioned I’m also going to use a rather large fuge (30g fuge to 75g display) and make the DSB in there to still reap the benefits of nitrate stability.
Also FWIW, I think I decided I’m going to use a true BB with just placing the rock directly on the glass. Rock slides and cracking doesn’t seem to be a real concern, and it limits the complexity with the faux sand and starboard setups that some people experience (ie dead zones). A great idea I read to help reflect light in the BB setup is to put glossy white posterboard underneath the glass. You and I will never see it due to the relection on the glass, but the corals will soak in all that reflection. That is of course until the bottom is covered in coralline
The reasons I’m leaning towards BB is that both will need detritus removal anyway, and at least with BB you can vaccum it out without worry. Then you don’t have the concern about a nitrate factory in my SSB. Detritus does build up regardless of what's on the bottom, and the only way I’ve found to rid of it on my current SSB is blowing it with a turkey baster which ultimately does nothing but relocate the detritus and stir up the sand in the process. At least with BB you can see where the crud accumulates and vacuum it out with water changes. As mentioned I’m also going to use a rather large fuge (30g fuge to 75g display) and make the DSB in there to still reap the benefits of nitrate stability.
Also FWIW, I think I decided I’m going to use a true BB with just placing the rock directly on the glass. Rock slides and cracking doesn’t seem to be a real concern, and it limits the complexity with the faux sand and starboard setups that some people experience (ie dead zones). A great idea I read to help reflect light in the BB setup is to put glossy white posterboard underneath the glass. You and I will never see it due to the relection on the glass, but the corals will soak in all that reflection. That is of course until the bottom is covered in coralline
I've had BB, DSB, and SSB. I have to say that i'm the most pleased with a shallow sand bed (SSB) since its the best of both worlds. My sand bed is only 1in and some areas of the tank have no sand so there is no nutrient build up. I still can have high flow rates and once the sand is populated with bacteria having some blow around in the current isn't an issue since it drops quickly with no sand storm. Plus, IMO, a tank without sand doesn't look right...it looks like an experiement. :wink:
Denitrification canand will happen in shallow sandbeds. Its not a function of depth as much as one of a low 02 area for the bacteria to grow.
IME, a SSB will denitrify as well as a DSB does. IME the DSB takes longer to fill with detritus and IMO has nothing more to offer. If you stir a SSB during W/C in small sections, say 10% per W/C you can keep it from having to much accumulate in it over time.
FWIW, I run my tank BB and use filter socks changed regularly, and have very very little build up. My tank is a 58 oceanic with a Koralia 4 and vortech along with the return. The detritus barely makes a tiny pile over a 1 month period. Most of it goes over the overflow and into the filter sock. I also skim heavy and set a SSB (2.5") in a refugium for cheato. I did this so if I decide later to take the fuge off line I just unplug the pump from the sump. There is also very little detritus making to my fuge this way since it is trapped in the filter sock in the sump and the feed pump for the fuge is in the sump. Anyway I do feel I get best of both worlds with this method. I can crank a lot of flow in my tank and keep the detritus managed but have an external SB and macro farm to handle any build up.
Funny thing on my SPS tank (100g + 50g sump) I have an average skimmer (ASM G3, no mods), I do have a relatively light fish load 5 fish total, 3 herbivores (2 tangs + rabbitfish) and 2 carnivores (Clown wrasse + watchman goby), but I don't have a sandbed anywhere in that tank, I'm not religious with weekly water changes, however when I do water changes I do siphon most everything loose off the ground, in both the tank and sump (something you can't do with a sandbed), and my nitrates read zero.
Now I don't know if it's just my fish load, or a faulty nitrate test kit, but the ability to "denitrate" a tank, whether it's a sandbed or some commercial device, doesn't always seem like it's needed.
Now I don't know if it's just my fish load, or a faulty nitrate test kit
, but the ability to "denitrate" a tank, whether it's a sandbed or some commercial device, doesn't always seem like it's needed.sfsuphysics":3fchnr1h said:Funny thing on my SPS tank (100g + 50g sump) I have an average skimmer (ASM G3, no mods), I do have a relatively light fish load 5 fish total, 3 herbivores (2 tangs + rabbitfish) and 2 carnivores (Clown wrasse + watchman goby), but I don't have a sandbed anywhere in that tank, I'm not religious with weekly water changes, however when I do water changes I do siphon most everything loose off the ground, in both the tank and sump (something you can't do with a sandbed), and my nitrates read zero.
Now I don't know if it's just my fish load, or a faulty nitrate test kit
This is what frustrates me more then anything
. I have a similar setup (rabbitfish as well), I have a DAS EX-1, which seems to be skimming reasonably well. I siphon stuff out when I do water changes (once every few weeks), use RO/DI, blah blah, but I still have massive bubble algae (and previously hair algae/byropsis) issues. Who knows....I do think BB seems to be a good way to go but for some reason I'm having not the best luck with it (better then DSB for me though).Oh don't misunderstand me, my tank is far from being "pristine" I have some algae too, in fact it seems that I just got the upper hand against some red poofy algae from hell, thanks to some mexican turbo snails. And I see to have more algae on my rocks than I have coraline (nothing bad like briopsis though). However my nitrates are reading zero. Now it's true that the algae might be the cause of it, but whatever it is I don't have nitrates without any sort of "active" means to remove it like a DSB or denitrator.PaintGuru":1wmihygb said:This is what frustrates me more then anything
I started this tank about a 2 months ago(this picture was taken right after it was up) The bottom is superboard cutting board. I bought 4 pieces from Target and chopped it up with a table saw.
The bottom got a lot of algae at first, so I introduced about 8 turbo snails. So far the snails love cruising the bottom and keeping it pretty clean. Hopefully this fall I can cover the bottom with so much stuff you will never even know the bottom is bare.
One thing that is pretty cool is that all the detrius settles into spots that can be easily sucked out.
The bottom got a lot of algae at first, so I introduced about 8 turbo snails. So far the snails love cruising the bottom and keeping it pretty clean. Hopefully this fall I can cover the bottom with so much stuff you will never even know the bottom is bare.
One thing that is pretty cool is that all the detrius settles into spots that can be easily sucked out.
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