Comparison of two different salt mix studies:

[Ninong]

When I saw the results a few days ago, in a quick glance, the first thoughts were that the bromide values might be wrong and that the manganese values can't be that high... perhaps ppm should read ppb in this case.

Hi Habib,

I didn't even notice the bromide values because bromide wasn't reported in Hovanec's previous study and I was just making comparisons between Matt's new study and Tim's previous results.

I suspect that you may be right about the manganese values being the result of a typo because it would be impossible to have anything alive in saltwater that contained 180 ppm Mn. That may be what happened with his lead values, too. I can't believe that Crystal Sea Bioassay has 2 ppm Pb. It certainly wouldn't be used by the EPA to perform bioassay tests if that were true.

Yes, it's a shame that they didn't test natural seawater so that we could see if similiar unexpected results were achieved.

As to bromide, Matt makes the following statement in his article: "All salt mixes have excess levels of Bromine compared to NSW, but it should not be a toxic contaminant at any of these levels."

Is that an a priori claim that is common knowledge? Or is this a posteriori conclusion he is reaching based on his test results?

Maybe all of this will be explained in Part Two of the article???

 

[Ninong]

Perhaps Matt could provide us with links to studies that show that 600 ppm Bromine is not toxic to aquatic biota?

 

[MattM]

I suspect that you may be right about the manganese values being the result of a typo because it would be impossible to have anything alive in saltwater that contained 180 ppm Mn. That may be what happened with his lead values, too.

Guys -

Good catch! It was peer-reviewed, but this slipped through. I went back and compared against my original datasheets for every element and you are correct.

The values for Manganese and Lead should be in PPB, not PPM. I have already contacted the RDO staff to have them correct the online copy.

FYI - Attached below is the original data sheet for Oceanic. You can see the numbers for elements like Ca and Mg are in the expected range. I am researching to see if this equipment/procedure might be susceptible to false high readings for Br.

 

[LA-Lawman]

Matt, why wasn't the whole link posted...?? it is kind of hard to read half an article and try and make heads or tail's of it... and to wait unitl the 15th... you are gonna give me a heart attack...

 

[liquid]

I've updated both the online text and the accompanying photos. Changed from ppm --> ppb. If it doesn't show properly on your end yet, do a [ctrl]-[f5] to force a cache update.

Shane

 

[liquid]

LA-Lawman:

Matt, why wasn't the whole link posted...?? it is kind of hard to read half an article and try and make heads or tail's of it

The article was incredibly long so the editorial decision was made to break it up into two parts.

Shane

 

[Habib (Salifert)]

I've updated both the online text and the accompanying photos. Changed from ppm --> ppb. If it doesn't show properly on your end yet, do a [ctrl]-[f5] to force a cache update.

Shane

Shane, those graphs show up as a red cross and clicking on it takes me to:

To access this part of the site, you need to log in with your user name and password.


Can you please post your username and password so we all can view them? :lol:

 

[liquid]

Fixed. Our article workflow starts everything out in the Private workflow state and I just forgot to make it Visible before I logged out. My appologies.



Shane

 

[Habib (Salifert)]

Fixed. Our article workflow starts everything out in the Private workflow state and I just forgot to make it Visible before I logged out. My appologies.



Shane

Apologies accepted!















Thanks, Shane!

 

[Anonymous]

FYI - Attached below is the original data sheet for Oceanic. You can see the numbers for elements like Ca and Mg are in the expected range. I am researching to see if this equipment/procedure might be susceptible to false high readings for Br.

It is not. ICP-MS is very accurate for Br and gives repeatable, stable results. However, accurately analyzing seawater often involves very tricky matrix removal methodologies (via chromatographic columns), you should inquire about the methods. ICP-MS is also an instrument useful for VERY low concentration ranges. Anything with a large concentration of dissolved solids (in other words, calcium) has to be diluted tremendously.

 

[Benjaman210274]

Quite simple to explain why all the differences. Hovanec tested the water prior to adding the salts and again after. Marulla however added his salt and then tested. oops!
Hovanec has been better able to make valuable conclusions upon his studies. Coal for filter carbon or activated carbon? there are so many reasons why coal is better. check his findings.

 

[Nautilus1]

If Matt or Tim, Or tom Dick and harry repeated the the test they would all get something different again. The bromide test could have been contamintated by the standard. I doubt these salts are made with any strict quantitative quality control anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

What do the results mean?

Nothing.

The best thing any reefer can do is to test every new batch from a new bucket before they add it to the tank, then test it again halfway through.

Salt mixes, I hope everyone knows by now, are very inconsistent from bucket to bucket. Instant Ocean themselves did a study, and the results varied from batch to batch.

Do yourself a favor, and check before you change

 

[Anonymous]

What do the results mean?

Nothing.

The best thing any reefer can do is to test every new batch from a new bucket before they add it to the tank, then test it again halfway through.

Salt mixes, I hope everyone knows by now, are very inconsistent from bucket to bucket. Instant Ocean themselves did a study, and the results varied from batch to batch.

Do yourself a favor, and check before you change

Agreed!
_________________
Mercedes MB100

 

[pwj1286]

How can salt companies claim they have a good salt mix and test show that they suck?

This is such a sensitive important issue that can not be ignored.
_________________
Cancer - Skin Forum

 

[Anonymous]

How can salt companies claim they have a good salt mix and test show that they suck?

This is such a sensitive important issue that can not be ignored.

I think they do the best that they can replicating nature. Remember, the ocean is an incredibly complex "environment" completely different than what we live in. It is it's own whole world.

Think about how hard it would be to synthetically replicate our atmosphere to be able to support you or I for the long term.

From what I understand, they replicate as much of the complexities to sustain the minimal amount of life we could possibly keep in a home aquarium. Many of the bits and pieces, chemically, of the oceans water, is not needed in precise amounts to sustain what we can keep.