Ich

[rburn99]

Well, it finally happened... Ich

In the past I have always dealt only with store A. I left the hobby for a while and just came back and have finished cycling my setup. I recently watched an employee at store A dosing one of their large systems and asked what it was. He said copper. So I assume store A keeps trace copper in their FO systems to guarantee against Ich. (ass/u/m-ing) I got a couple small fish from them. No problems, fish healthy and eating well. Then I found some firefish I wanted at store B. I had them hold three for me for almost a week to make sure they were healthy and eating well. They were and I bought them. Now I see Ich on them Nothing on the fish from store A

Assumptions/questions
*Can I assume the Ich came from store B?
*Should I never buy fish from store B again?
Can corals from tanks with Ich transport Ich?
*Will Ich now be in my tank forever.. periodically flairing up/killing fish?

I read that a tank can become ich-free again if I remove all fish for a month and a half? This would mean removing one hundred pounds of rock (so all corals also) because there is no way to catch these fish otherwise.

It would be easier to remove the coral (only three small pieces and I can catch them very easily ). Is it possible to dose the main tank, kill the Ich and then remove the copper? Is there a phosban type copper remover? I'm going to guess no because I don't think Ich would be a big deal otherwise.

Removing (and maintaining) a hundred pounds of cycled rock is going to suck big time. I guess the moral is to buy a complete second setup just to keep fish in for .. what.. a month and a half?.. to make sure they don't have Ich. (This is not going to be fun trying to explain to the wife how everything we just bought we need to buy again.. the fact that we'll only need cheaper versions of everything will mean nothing I"m sure)

 

[Anonymous]

You don't need to have an exact duplicate set up to maintain a quarentine tank. Especially if you are just buying small fish like a firefish, a ten gallon with a heater and small powerhead will suffice, add a few pieces of PVC for somewhere to hide. Daily partial water change replacing with water from your main tank, where you siphon any leftover food or poop will keep water quality fine.

You cannot dose with copper if you have live rock and want to use the rock in a reef again.

 

[rburn99]

Thanks for replying Laura,

You're right. I can get by with a much lesser setup. (I guess my original post was a kneejerk reaction to all the work ahead)

A question though.. is using my main tank's water for QT water changes a good idea? Won't I just be putting any parasites that are in the swimming stage back in with my fish? Plus I have read that the QT should be at a lower salinity (1.019?) and higher temp (82-84).

 

[Anonymous]

Well, you aren't just exchanging water back and forth with the main tank, sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

Siphon water out of your Q tank, throw that away, replace with water from your main tank, and then replace the water you took from your main tank with newly made water. I believe the large water changes replaced with the aged tank water are less stressfull than with new saltwater, and in addition, you are getting your new fish accostomed to water that is in the tank they will be moved into in the future.

Some people do Q at lower salinity, if you want to do that, it's not hard to add a little fresh water to get it where you want to go.

 

[rburn99]

Oh I didn't mean changing the water back and forth either. I meant using water from the main tank to replace water taken out of the QT. The main tank is now 'infected' so at any given time (I guess until 4-6 weeks of no fish have passed) there could be (probably are) parasites swimming in the water, aren't there? And I would just be continually adding these parasites into the QT tank (as long as they were/are still present in the main tank?

Also, what about inverts.. cleaner shrimp for example. Can they host the parasites? Do I need to remove all critters (snails, crabs, shrimp) from the main tank for 4-6 weeks or is it strictly fish only?

Thanks,

 

[Anonymous]

Oh I didn't mean changing the water back and forth either. I meant using water from the main tank to replace water taken out of the QT. The main tank is now 'infected' so at any given time (I guess until 4-6 weeks of no fish have passed) there could be (probably are) parasites swimming in the water, aren't there? And I would just be continually adding these parasites into the QT tank (as long as they were/are still present in the main tank?,

I thought you wouldn't be able to catch your fish out of the main tank so I was just talking about the quaretine tank idea in general, for the future I guess you would say. Just kind of basic q tank ideas. Yeah, if your tank does have parasites you surely don't want to add any water from it.

Also, what about inverts.. cleaner shrimp for example. Can they host the parasites? Do I need to remove all critters (snails, crabs, shrimp) from the main tank for 4-6 weeks or is it strictly fish only?

Thanks,

I am pretty sure they won't host any thing but maybe someone else knows for sure. I have never had to leave a tank fallow for purposes of eradicating a parasite so I don't know.

 

[Anonymous]

Are your fish that have ich eating? Are they breathing heavily? Some people think that ich is found in almost every tank, and fish that become stressed are more likely to get it. Fish can also get over ich all by themselves.

Set up a small QT like Laura suggested, and copper the tank. Keep the fishies with ich in there for 6-8 weeks, and then put them back in the main tank.

 

[Anonymous]

Some people think that ich is found in almost every tank

You do realize those people are "challenged", yes?

Jim

 

[rburn99]

Are your fish that have ich eating? Are they breathing heavily?

They're eating and breathing fine... and except for occasionally arcing into the substrate (in what might be scratching) they are acting fine. I'm beginning to wonder if it might be something other than ich. The spots are larger than pictures I've seen of ich. Rather than table salt sized they are more (for lack of a better way to describe it) the size of salt found on bagels. Also it's not on the fins or gills but just a few spots on the body, mostly by the tail (although one might have a spot on his head)

 

[Anonymous]

I don't suppose you could take a pic...? In any case, please give serious consideration to starting up that QT.

You do realize those people are "challenged", yes?

 

[rburn99]

I've tried taking picture after picture. It's clear as day but it doesn't show up in pictures. Here's the best pic I got of it. It also seems to be a bit easier to see today than yesterday (ie: getting worse)

 

[Anonymous]

That's a pretty fish! I think that could still be ich.

Didn't I read somewhere that firefish are more sensitive to copper based medicines? Does this ring a bell with anyone else? Maybe I'm thinking of another fish. Hrrrmmm.

 

[Terry B]

Here is a link to a Website with a two part series on quarantine methodology and some articles on ich and other subjects to. Just look in the library on this Website.

http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/qua ... ogy_1.html

HTH,
Terry B

 

[rburn99]

Thanks for the link Terry

Okay, after a LONG night of removing 100 lbs of rock, removing all fish, replacing all rock... I now have a sore back, and a 90 gallon tank with 30 hermits, 12 snails, and a cleaner shrimp. I have to set up a QT tank yet and then transfer the fish from the sump.

Can anyone tell me where I should be at for hyposalinity? I have seen 1.018, 1.019, and the author in the link above, says it should be at 1.009.

Another question.. what should I do about the cleaner shrimp? I've never worried about having to feed one before but now that he's the only inhabitant (besides the cleanup crew)...

 

[Anonymous]

I can't tell you where you should be for hyposalinity, but I recommend a long acclimation process.

With regard to the cleaner shrimp, I would lighty feed him.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

 

[Anonymous]

It is 1.009 indeed. Listen to Terry B and the stuff on the site he gave you the link to. He's the expert around here. He helped me out with a marine velvet problem I had, i followed his advice, and all of my fish are alive today because of him.

 

[Anonymous]

That's awesome, Soulfighter! Velvet is a spooky thing...I'm glad you were able to beat it!

 

[Anonymous]

you can even go lower than 1.009 SG (13ppt salinity)...boney fish can tolerate levels as low as 1.007 SG and 10ppt salinity. The acclimation process can be done in as little as 12 hours for bringing the salinity down. Its when you bring it back up that you have to pace yourself. 4days at the mininum.
I agree on reading up on Terry's info, he is the expert on marine fish disease.