C
Chiefmcfuz
Guest
Pierce I am actually waiting for that to happen.
ANYONE TAKING ME UP ON MY OFFER??????
ANYONE TAKING ME UP ON MY OFFER??????
Solaris H4 series
- Thread starter alrha
- Start date
D
DEEPWATER
Guest
Thank you ,that eactly what im saying ,,IF ITS FREE you can go ol glory and say it good ,ONLY CUZ its free
But you can't say it is bad if you don't even own or have tried one.
- Location
- NY
- Location
- Marine Park
But you can comment on the technology being used and its limitations. The laws of physics & chemistry work inside of this fixture same as they do in the rest of the world 
- Location
- Marine Park
Imagine no bulb replacements either for at least five years
Figure two bulbs @ approx. $70 each every 10 months.
That's six bulb replacements at $140 per set.
$840 savings on bulbs alone.
The sps question is still just that in my mind, a question :scratchch
Ugh this isn't true. Your MH bulbs experience a rapid degradation for the first 4-6 months. After that time they stay pretty constant with very little change in spectrum and very little drop in par value.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/ac/index.php
LEDs while working completely differently, experience the same shift and intensity drop that MHs do.
(from the horse's mouth IEEE)
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/16/31765/01479053.pdf?arnumber=1479053
There are MANY more articles on LEDs that document this, I just grabbed this one.
- Location
- NY
The stated life of the LED's is 50,000 hrs. If you run the lights for 8 hrs/day, after 5 years you've only technically 'used' up 14,600 hrs. Far less than the claim of 50,000 hrs useful life. I only gave the comparison for 5 years to account for shift in par. I could have said 15 years of useful life. I didn't.
R
- Location
- Marine Park
I'm sure sanjay, grim and the rest of the illumiphiles will hook up some real good tests and give us some good numbers. The data that I've collected on these states quite the contrary to the manufacturers statements.
Coralife used to say that if you switched to CF bulbs you wouldn't have to change them for years.
T5 manufacturers claimed that you could run them for years before having to change them
I'm sure that these LEDs will burn for a very long time but how much of that time is valuable to us? What labs consider "an insignificant spectrum shift" is insignificant in a traffic light but not so in a reef light. We notice the difference from 10k 12k 14k 15k whereas in most industrial uses you're looking for white or blue, both of which when perceived by the human eye are almost the same color! (Bright white is made by light blue)
As for Red and yellow, green etc. A LARGE spectrum shift would be acceptable in most implementations.
The article above shows that MH bulb are all over the place until about 4-6 months in. At that point they are truly "Broken in" as they now stay very constant. That of course is not our "broken in point" we consider these bulbs garbage at that point. The info I've seen suggests the same to be true of LEDs. Now if I let it my MH bulb would burn for a few years before blowing out but that doesn't mean it would be useful for that time period.
Coralife used to say that if you switched to CF bulbs you wouldn't have to change them for years.
T5 manufacturers claimed that you could run them for years before having to change them
I'm sure that these LEDs will burn for a very long time but how much of that time is valuable to us? What labs consider "an insignificant spectrum shift" is insignificant in a traffic light but not so in a reef light. We notice the difference from 10k 12k 14k 15k whereas in most industrial uses you're looking for white or blue, both of which when perceived by the human eye are almost the same color! (Bright white is made by light blue)
As for Red and yellow, green etc. A LARGE spectrum shift would be acceptable in most implementations.
The article above shows that MH bulb are all over the place until about 4-6 months in. At that point they are truly "Broken in" as they now stay very constant. That of course is not our "broken in point" we consider these bulbs garbage at that point. The info I've seen suggests the same to be true of LEDs. Now if I let it my MH bulb would burn for a few years before blowing out but that doesn't mean it would be useful for that time period.
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- Location
- NY
Hence my reason for quoting 1/3 of their claim.
- Location
- Marine Park
It's much closer to 10,000 hours
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/solidstate/completedProjects.asp?ID=73
However this test didn't turn them on and off. Turning them on and off will cause many factors which will shorten the "usefulness" of the bulb, both in terms of color shift and light intensity. The other problem is, it is believed, that the UV emission quickly yellows the casing. Whatever the cause something yellows the casing in ultra bright LEDs.
The article mentions "the color shift was quite small" but again they don't elaborate on what their threshold was for "quite small" vs. "kinda small"
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/solidstate/completedProjects.asp?ID=73
However this test didn't turn them on and off. Turning them on and off will cause many factors which will shorten the "usefulness" of the bulb, both in terms of color shift and light intensity. The other problem is, it is believed, that the UV emission quickly yellows the casing. Whatever the cause something yellows the casing in ultra bright LEDs.
The article mentions "the color shift was quite small" but again they don't elaborate on what their threshold was for "quite small" vs. "kinda small"
Not true. I never owned a Ford but I can say they are bad.
Everyone stop for a minute!:ANYWORD:
This has been the best statment so far:scratch: . I own a Ford and it is the biggest POS vehicle I've owned and it's a 2005. New technology, gadgets, etc....
But you can comment on the technology being used and its limitations. The laws of physics & chemistry work inside of this fixture same as they do in the rest of the world
Well said :wink1: :ANYWORD:
- Location
- Marine Park
You know it's a great idea but factually there are problems with LEDs in this application that haven't been ironed out yet. The hope is that over time advances will be made in LED technology that will enable them to be much cheaper and much more suited to our uses.
I'm interested in how they create the spectral shift that they advertise with this. Is it done via turning certain LEDs on and other odd the way that the Fresh Direct Screen of the LIE does or is it by slightly changing the voltage going into the LEDs. I think one of the links I posted shows how very slight changes in the juice will change the color and intensity of the light but also will greatly reduce the life of the diode.
I'm still waiting for a "This is the greatest thing I've bought!" post. Dialyseas has them, Deltec has them, Bubbleking has them, I even found some for the Solar Flare but none for this product. I find that odd. Every high end product has it loyal and devoted fan base that are glad that they made the purchase, or feel the need to justify it. I can't find those people for this product.
Side note, will any of the MR venders be carrying this product? If so does anyone have run running yet? The people I know that have seen one in action were less than impressed. I'd like to see what a tank with one looks like. Forums are covered with "Protected by..." and so forth. Anyone know where a "Lit by ..." is?
I'm interested in how they create the spectral shift that they advertise with this. Is it done via turning certain LEDs on and other odd the way that the Fresh Direct Screen of the LIE does or is it by slightly changing the voltage going into the LEDs. I think one of the links I posted shows how very slight changes in the juice will change the color and intensity of the light but also will greatly reduce the life of the diode.
I'm still waiting for a "This is the greatest thing I've bought!" post. Dialyseas has them, Deltec has them, Bubbleking has them, I even found some for the Solar Flare but none for this product. I find that odd. Every high end product has it loyal and devoted fan base that are glad that they made the purchase, or feel the need to justify it. I can't find those people for this product.
Side note, will any of the MR venders be carrying this product? If so does anyone have run running yet? The people I know that have seen one in action were less than impressed. I'd like to see what a tank with one looks like. Forums are covered with "Protected by..." and so forth. Anyone know where a "Lit by ..." is?
- Location
- Marine Park
I feel the need to qualify some of my statements. A friend of mine is an electrical engineer who works for Blue Man Group. He's been in charge of their Live Wire, LED arrays and rest of their neat electronic stuff for the last 10 years. He knows an awful lot about LEDs and putting them in environments where they aren't normally seen. We were working on an array for aquarium use a few years ago.
I'm not trying to hate here and I know 85% of you will blow past this post without even reading it, but the problem here is that the only people with information on these things are the people who make them or sell them. So rather than reading info, you're reading an advertisement. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals says the Sea-Clone is a great skimmer. Dialyseas says 75% less maintenance. I can say for both that those advertisements are not true.
The few who have purchased, most info I've heard from them wasn't positive. But not overly negative.
At $2800, you will never make up the costs with only a 40% energy savings on lights. Never. Figure in costs of bulb purchases (every 2 years) and and you will find these to be much more expensive. The fact that these were compared with an XM 20K with a glass shield placed in front of it and still had 30% less PAR, you won't be making any money back on selling corals from massive growth either.
Guys, I want to see this happen. I want more efficient and cooler lighting. Experimenting is key. It is the only way to advance. But I don't see this one working any time soon. LED's are so unreliable that the majority of our equipment in the FD that is put out of service is LED involved. This goes from the heads-up display in our mask which lets us know how much air we have left (these things take a beating and I'm not exaggerating when I say they go out every week) down to our Haz-Mat meters which are used in much more calm environments and are treated like you would treat most of your aquarium equipment.
LED's were sold to the city because they will last soooo long. Next time you drive around the city, take a count of how many of the WALK/DONT WALK signs have lights out.
I hope to see the experimentation continue. But if you ask me, more efficiency in MH is the future. Not LED's.
The few who have purchased, most info I've heard from them wasn't positive. But not overly negative.
At $2800, you will never make up the costs with only a 40% energy savings on lights. Never. Figure in costs of bulb purchases (every 2 years) and and you will find these to be much more expensive. The fact that these were compared with an XM 20K with a glass shield placed in front of it and still had 30% less PAR, you won't be making any money back on selling corals from massive growth either.
Guys, I want to see this happen. I want more efficient and cooler lighting. Experimenting is key. It is the only way to advance. But I don't see this one working any time soon. LED's are so unreliable that the majority of our equipment in the FD that is put out of service is LED involved. This goes from the heads-up display in our mask which lets us know how much air we have left (these things take a beating and I'm not exaggerating when I say they go out every week) down to our Haz-Mat meters which are used in much more calm environments and are treated like you would treat most of your aquarium equipment.
LED's were sold to the city because they will last soooo long. Next time you drive around the city, take a count of how many of the WALK/DONT WALK signs have lights out.
I hope to see the experimentation continue. But if you ask me, more efficiency in MH is the future. Not LED's.
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- Location
- Marine Park
So good a point I think it needs to be said again.
please dont knock me for this statement.......but i seems to be a concern for this new tecnology ..why doesnt everyone pitch in some dough and we
buy one and put it on an sps tank for a year and see....makes sence since noone is feeling the high price...or maybe a vender can influence pfo
to donate one to our reef community for research purposes for the benifiet of thier future sells...because right now its looking very grim..
besides who wouldnt wanna save on electric...ya know...just my 2 cents..
buy one and put it on an sps tank for a year and see....makes sence since noone is feeling the high price...or maybe a vender can influence pfo
to donate one to our reef community for research purposes for the benifiet of thier future sells...because right now its looking very grim..
besides who wouldnt wanna save on electric...ya know...just my 2 cents..
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