Paracentropyge multifasciata - Multi-Barred Angel
- Thread starter Tarasco
- Start date
Let's start out by saying that you should always do the the research BEFORE purchasing any live animal. Having said that, I think Paracentropyge multifasciata should probably not be collected for the aquarium trade. They RARELY eat in captivity, and even when you get one that does pick at food, they usually starve to death in a few months. Enjoy yours for the short time you'll have it and consider it a lesson learned.
Greg
Greg
Greg is right. The situation with that species is so bad that it's rightly regarded as mostly unsuitable for captivity. Occasionally individuals will thrive for a period of time, but usually don't last long.
Having said that, the Nancy Aquarium in France has had one for at least 19 years.
Having said that, the Nancy Aquarium in France has had one for at least 19 years.
Well, I posted on here on the advice of Bob Fenner, just to see if there were some people out there with personal knowledge regarding this fish.
It started when I saw the fish at an LFS. They had two, but couldn't really tell me all that much about them, so I went home and hit the net. General searches didn't find a whole lot, other than they are a deepwater species, grow to about 4 inches, and have great difficulty in feeding. I also looked in Scott Michael's book, and found that they had an aquarium suitability index of 2 for the feeding issue. I emailed the Marine Center, and they told me about the feeding issue, and that the best bet for this guy is to put it in a well established reef tank (and they were selling it for $115!). I currently have a 90 gallon tank with about 95 lbs. of rock that is over 1.5 years old.
Then I posted on three other bulletin boards and sent an email to the crew at Wetwebmedia. I managed to find one(!) person with personal knowledge of this fish for his 135 gallon reef tank. He said that when he bought it, it was shy at first, and wouldn't eat anything. However after about a week it was eating brine shrimp and picking at the live rock, and within about two months the fish had learned to accept almost all the prepared food he gave it, and was no longer shy but a great reef citizen. he lost the fish due to a crack in his tank.
So at that point I decided to see if the fish was still at the store. It was, and the price was $20. It didn't seem too interested in the prepared food I had the LFS employee feed it, but it was picking on the rock, so I decided to take a chance and bought it.
I decided to skip quarantine due to the feeding issue and placed the fish directly in my tank. It quickly found a dark place to hide, and I didn't see it for the next 24 hours. The next day, though, it would pop out of its spot to pick at the rocks for about 20 seconds at a time. Acting very shy, especially when people are near the tank. Recently, it has been getting more bold, and I have seen it pick Formula 2 flakes off the rock, so I am definitely encouraged.
At this point I received a reply from Fenner at wetwebmedia. He told me that these guys are tough to feed, and that they last on average 3 months in the home aquarium. He basically gave them a 2 out of 3 for aquarium suitability. I replied with my experience so far, and he sounded encouraged as well, and told me that I should post here to get and give information.
So that's where I am now. Just curious if there were others out there who had one of these, and their experiences, whether good or bad. There's very little info on these guys out there, and I figured that by posting maybe it'll help someone down the line. I'll try to keep updates on his progress.
It started when I saw the fish at an LFS. They had two, but couldn't really tell me all that much about them, so I went home and hit the net. General searches didn't find a whole lot, other than they are a deepwater species, grow to about 4 inches, and have great difficulty in feeding. I also looked in Scott Michael's book, and found that they had an aquarium suitability index of 2 for the feeding issue. I emailed the Marine Center, and they told me about the feeding issue, and that the best bet for this guy is to put it in a well established reef tank (and they were selling it for $115!). I currently have a 90 gallon tank with about 95 lbs. of rock that is over 1.5 years old.
Then I posted on three other bulletin boards and sent an email to the crew at Wetwebmedia. I managed to find one(!) person with personal knowledge of this fish for his 135 gallon reef tank. He said that when he bought it, it was shy at first, and wouldn't eat anything. However after about a week it was eating brine shrimp and picking at the live rock, and within about two months the fish had learned to accept almost all the prepared food he gave it, and was no longer shy but a great reef citizen. he lost the fish due to a crack in his tank.
So at that point I decided to see if the fish was still at the store. It was, and the price was $20. It didn't seem too interested in the prepared food I had the LFS employee feed it, but it was picking on the rock, so I decided to take a chance and bought it.
I decided to skip quarantine due to the feeding issue and placed the fish directly in my tank. It quickly found a dark place to hide, and I didn't see it for the next 24 hours. The next day, though, it would pop out of its spot to pick at the rocks for about 20 seconds at a time. Acting very shy, especially when people are near the tank. Recently, it has been getting more bold, and I have seen it pick Formula 2 flakes off the rock, so I am definitely encouraged.
At this point I received a reply from Fenner at wetwebmedia. He told me that these guys are tough to feed, and that they last on average 3 months in the home aquarium. He basically gave them a 2 out of 3 for aquarium suitability. I replied with my experience so far, and he sounded encouraged as well, and told me that I should post here to get and give information.
So that's where I am now. Just curious if there were others out there who had one of these, and their experiences, whether good or bad. There's very little info on these guys out there, and I figured that by posting maybe it'll help someone down the line. I'll try to keep updates on his progress.
Tarasco, I just finished the Daily FAQs page. I decided to feature what is being listed on fishbase as Centropyge multifasciata. I was able to find two fish within this now defunct genus, both are listed now as Centropyge.
It notes there that they are notoriously poor feeders in captivity, and that they are found on sheer rock faces and in caves.
Whatever you do, get that fish OFF the brine and onto something else ASAP. Mysis would be a far better choice, and I would also offer bloodworms, mostly to stimulate feeding response. My guess is that if you can get it to take feedstuffs similar to mandarins you may have a chance at keeping this animal for any extended period of time. There was no notation of foodstuffs found in the gut on fishbase, so this is a bit problematic to determine with any real accuracy, but it's worth a shot.
Also, since you're in LB, I suggest going to the LBAOP, see if they've got this fish in any displays at all. If you can find an actual aquarist in the tropical section, ask them about this fish - because if anyone can keep an animal like this, it would the the LBAOP.
It notes there that they are notoriously poor feeders in captivity, and that they are found on sheer rock faces and in caves.
Whatever you do, get that fish OFF the brine and onto something else ASAP. Mysis would be a far better choice, and I would also offer bloodworms, mostly to stimulate feeding response. My guess is that if you can get it to take feedstuffs similar to mandarins you may have a chance at keeping this animal for any extended period of time. There was no notation of foodstuffs found in the gut on fishbase, so this is a bit problematic to determine with any real accuracy, but it's worth a shot.
Also, since you're in LB, I suggest going to the LBAOP, see if they've got this fish in any displays at all. If you can find an actual aquarist in the tropical section, ask them about this fish - because if anyone can keep an animal like this, it would the the LBAOP.
The reason you couldn't find any practical information on the net is because this fish is next to impossibe to keep alive in captivity. I recall reading somewhere that they are almost obligate sponge eaters.
It would have been best to let the fish die at the store. This way the store won't order another one; the wholesaler won't ask for them; and the collector won't catch another one. I know I'm simplifying it, but that's bascially how it works. As long as there some aquarist willing to "rescue" or "take a chance" on an impossible fish or coral, it will continue to be collected for the trade.
Greg
It would have been best to let the fish die at the store. This way the store won't order another one; the wholesaler won't ask for them; and the collector won't catch another one. I know I'm simplifying it, but that's bascially how it works. As long as there some aquarist willing to "rescue" or "take a chance" on an impossible fish or coral, it will continue to be collected for the trade.
Greg
I agree with the comments by Greg and John. This is definitely a fish that should not be collected. Just to add a little info on this animal's ecology, I saw numerous specimens of this fish while diving in the Solomon Islands. It occured mainly on deeper reef walls in crevices, overhangs and little caves. It was very secretive and I would at most get a momentary glimpse of the fish before it swam for deeper cover within the recesses of the reef structure. It always stayed very close to the reef structure and I never once saw a specimen swimming in open water. It is an extemely shy fish which I suspect may add to it's difficult husbandry. Buy a good book like the Scott Michael 500 essential marine fish guide and this mistake can be avoided again and save a fish life and you some money in the process.
Tarasco,
Most of the specimens I have seen from Indonesia usually begin eating mysis rather quickly. With that said, I picked up a multibar that came from Marshall Island. I assumed it was collected better, etc...and it looks a little different (better IMO) than most of the ones from Indo. Anyways, I have never observed mine eating any prepared food, but it is constantly picking on the rocks. In the two months I have had it, it has gotten very skinny, but has since fattened up again. If you have good, established liverock for it to feed on, and no other angels competing for the livrock goodies, yours should do fine.
Most of the specimens I have seen from Indonesia usually begin eating mysis rather quickly. With that said, I picked up a multibar that came from Marshall Island. I assumed it was collected better, etc...and it looks a little different (better IMO) than most of the ones from Indo. Anyways, I have never observed mine eating any prepared food, but it is constantly picking on the rocks. In the two months I have had it, it has gotten very skinny, but has since fattened up again. If you have good, established liverock for it to feed on, and no other angels competing for the livrock goodies, yours should do fine.
Seamaiden - Thanks for the suggestion. I work down the street from the aquarium, so I'm going to have to make another run down there soon. As for the brine shrimp, it is not eating that yet, just the Formula 2 flakes and whatever it gets off the rocks. I know about the nutritional deficiency that a brine shrimp only diet provides, and give my fish a combo of Formula 1 and 2, Prime Reef, Mysis shrimp, clam, and Sweetwater zooplankton, along with a recent purchase of Angel Formula for this new guy.
Gscheimer - I understand the point that you are trying to make regarding not buying impossible to keep species. Although I did see things written stating that this angel ate sponges, I did not see it stated anywhere that they were obligate sponge feeders. I would have stayed away if I had seen that.
Actually, part of the reason that I thought I might give the fish a shot was due to an article on angels that you wrote, mentioning the only other paracentropyge that I've heard of:
"I once kept the closely related Paracentopyge venusta angelfish in an aquarium with soft corals and clam, and it didn't show an interest in anything. This is a limited experience, but it's a fish I'd be willing to take a chance on again."
I understand that the venusta and multifasciata are different species, but thought that the family would have similar traits, and therefore possibly similar suitabilities. I guess this was an incorrect assumption on my part from what you are saying now.
Another part of the reason was the absence of information out there. I wouldn't call what I'm doing scientific in any way, but if I'm able to put out information, whether good or bad, it will help out others in the long run. You have given me the strongest rebuke yet, and it may have effected my purchase if I received this opinion from you before hand, but hopefully people finding this thread will take it into consideration as well.
Chooch - Thanks for posting the comments. I definitely get a sense of the fish's more timid nature right now. I do own Michael's book, and took it into consideration before purchase.
Terra Firma - I'm glad the your fish is doing well! I don't have any other angels, and the only other fish that I have that pick at the rocks are a six line wrasse and a yellow long nosed butterfly. There should be enough of what each of them want to go around. And it is good information about the different regions showing different eating tendencies.
I appreciate the comments. This is a lot more information than I was able to find in my other searches combined. I guess that I should have started here, huh?
Mike
Gscheimer - I understand the point that you are trying to make regarding not buying impossible to keep species. Although I did see things written stating that this angel ate sponges, I did not see it stated anywhere that they were obligate sponge feeders. I would have stayed away if I had seen that.
Actually, part of the reason that I thought I might give the fish a shot was due to an article on angels that you wrote, mentioning the only other paracentropyge that I've heard of:
"I once kept the closely related Paracentopyge venusta angelfish in an aquarium with soft corals and clam, and it didn't show an interest in anything. This is a limited experience, but it's a fish I'd be willing to take a chance on again."
I understand that the venusta and multifasciata are different species, but thought that the family would have similar traits, and therefore possibly similar suitabilities. I guess this was an incorrect assumption on my part from what you are saying now.
Another part of the reason was the absence of information out there. I wouldn't call what I'm doing scientific in any way, but if I'm able to put out information, whether good or bad, it will help out others in the long run. You have given me the strongest rebuke yet, and it may have effected my purchase if I received this opinion from you before hand, but hopefully people finding this thread will take it into consideration as well.
Chooch - Thanks for posting the comments. I definitely get a sense of the fish's more timid nature right now. I do own Michael's book, and took it into consideration before purchase.
Terra Firma - I'm glad the your fish is doing well! I don't have any other angels, and the only other fish that I have that pick at the rocks are a six line wrasse and a yellow long nosed butterfly. There should be enough of what each of them want to go around. And it is good information about the different regions showing different eating tendencies.
I appreciate the comments. This is a lot more information than I was able to find in my other searches combined. I guess that I should have started here, huh?
Mike
Paracentropyge venusta ....FishBase says it is Centropyge venustus, a name that I have known for 23 years.
Whatever it's called it's another species that is nearly impossible to keep alive for long.
I sometimes wonder if there are problems with the collecting or handling methods for these two species.
Whatever it's called it's another species that is nearly impossible to keep alive for long.
I sometimes wonder if there are problems with the collecting or handling methods for these two species.
Terra Ferma":3nf3fq3i said:
It's nice to hear about your experience with this fish, but two months hardly qualifies one to state that "yours should do fine." Get back to us in two years and tell us how well the fish is doing.
I just don't want to give anyone false hope or encourage others to purchase this fish. I've seen countless specimens of P. multifasciata over a twenty year period and only once did I even see one eat prepared foods. I almost bought that one too, but it already had a pinched dorsal musculature, so I knew it was doomed. It's horrible watching them die a slow death in an aquarium.
Greg
John_Brandt":aa5n9cog said:seamaiden":aa5n9cog said:
See, they don't even eat in nature
Why does this strike me as so funny? :lol:
Greg and Terra Firma - a hypothesis; I know many people who have encrusting sponges of various types (know that I know very little about sponges or tunicates) growing weedlike on their live rock. Could he possibly utilize this source of live sponge?
Also, I don't recollect how long you said you've had your C. mutifasciata, Terra, but more than a few months, yes?
What is the deal with the genus Paracentropyge? I have, to this point, been unable to find anything that discloses why it's no longer being used, or why this genus was created in the first place (although I'm assuming it was in part at least because of the ray counts).
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