Southdown Sand possibly toxic?....

[lawndoctor]

Seem to me that you have a running system, and decided to add more sand . . . . I don't understand why would you have the pump running so that the sand get everywhere...

Actually, I added the play sand through a tube with the pump turned off.

The sand did not "clump." It formed a cement layer on top and stayed finely particulate below. It's still in the tank today and has never clumped.

Given what I have learned recently about Carib Sea, in the future I might use South Down or Carib Sea, but I would screen, test, and cure all of it first.

 

[Syris]

Ya know I keep seeing these post on southdown being bad but no one else besides lawndoctor has come forward saying they had a bad experience with it.
So lawndoctor either got incredibly unlucky batch or there is some other explanation for his experience with cementing.

Im with LLLosingit, I use it (1yr) and my friends use it (some loneger than me) and none of us have had any cementing or side affects from it.

IMO southdown is perfectly safe.

 

[Marrowbone]

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/sa ... nting.html

Let's go through what happens when you set up a tank... You add the washed aragonite, then add newly mixed up salt water, right? Very, very bad move- You are building a brick. All that dissolved calcium and alkalinity immediately begins falling out of solution. The sand grains that touch begin to cement together with calcite. This is a double whammy- not only can critters not navigate this brick, but when bacteria films finally do form, calcite does not dissolve as easily as aragonite, therefore, the sand does not dissolve.

The piece does not specifically talk about Southdown, but it should fall under the same category... Any chance something like this happened to Lawndoctor?

 

[Robin Goodfellow]

hi.
Rather I agree with Mike on this is a separate issue, but in Lawndoctor's case, he add sand to saltwater, and the cement forms on the top of the sand, not immediately when the sand is added as can be explained in the article.

 

[Anonymous]

I knew I had read something like this earlier, it sure was easy to find. Have you all seen this?

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/sa ... nting.html

I had also read an excerpt from that somewhere, that was another reason I kept my sand in a trashcan of water for a month.

 

[madrefkepr]

I may be wrong about this (as I often am :roll: ) but isn't the clumping and cementing of a sand bed a pH issue?

 

[lawndoctor]

no one else besides lawndoctor has come forward saying they had a bad experience with it.

There have been two others in the last three years. I didn't save their posts, although now I wish I had. One was on here and the other was on RC. The three of us have taken a lot of abuse for reporting problems with South Down. In any event, I do agree that three is a low number given the vast majority of people who report using play sand without problems.

 

[Syris]

Lawndoctor,
I was not my intention to personally attack you. My point is that there is a very very small percentage of users with problems with SouthDown. And even then its is still a question of whether the sand was the cause.

 

[lawndoctor]

And even then its is still a question of whether the sand was the cause.

Thanks for your response - I didn't mean to imply that you were attacking me. After several years of discussion and debate, I don't see how this incident could have been caused by anything other than contamination in the sand. If you have some other facts or a plausible explanation to support your statement, I would really appreciate hearing it. Maybe it would help me avoid a repetition of this incident in the future.

 

[Riotfishdude]

hmm,someone did email the Dr. whatever that posted the post i pasted here from the mops.on.ca site,and so far i have not heard of any responce to the email..guess not surprisingly....Riot....

 

[Robin Goodfellow]

hi.
I don't want to make any generalization (since it is OFTEN not true), but IF ANYBODY talks like ME, it is VERY LIKELY that he/she have problem EXPRESSING his/her idea without YELLING. Most likely, it is the LACK of FACT and LIGIC that prompt ones to use this style. Now, this is without looking into WHAT was said, just HOW it was said.

 

[Riotfishdude]

This was pasted on an RC thread,i'm pasting it here...Riot....

"Here's the word from another ReefCentral member. It doesn't exclude the possibility that CaribSea DOES screen their sand, but the sources are the same per RC member Grumpy Vet:

Grumpy Vet
Reefer

Registered: May 2001
Location: Columbia, MD
Occupation: Sales
Posts: 177


Looks like we have two tangs in the same tank....No way am I getting in the middle of this -

I do have additional information available. I followed the ever so loquacious TAC and did some digging....and I think we have some good information. Nice memory TAC.

What is listed below comes from goby on the ReefCentral boards over a year ago. When you see first person - it is him speaking - not Grumpy. I just cut and pasted a bunch of threads together so it made sense even out of context. Then I just looked up a few addresses....and you now have the information of the company that sells the sand to Southdown who sells it to HomeDepot who sells it to Northeastern Reefers.

_____________________________

This sand is shipped to southdown from Marcona Ocean Industries which is out of Ft. Pierce Florida. They sell to both Southdown, AND Carib-Sea. (they also sell to Martin Marrieta in jacksonville, among others). Marcona Ocean Industries, the company that mines the stuff, does so in the carribean, and has a special agreement with carib-sea. They have a sort of "noncompete" agreement that says that they will not sell sand to anyone doing reefs. Kinda like panasonic selling its 36" pc bulbs only to custom sealife. Same type deal. anyways, marcona sells to Southdown, Inc. and I am sure that they have told Southdown what the scoop is. (and Southdown probably told HD).

How do I know this? I spent ALOT of time researching it last year, and actually talked to the plant manager at Marcona. Nice guy, I talked to him for a while, and he eventually asked what it was for.,.. I said...."uh.... not for fishtanks???" and he said "right answer" and then proceded to tell me all this stuff. The one thing that he did warn about was to NEVER EVER mention that you would be using it for aquarium use. Glad I had been thru this already with panasonic trying to get cheap PCs.
Thread


I contacted Marcona, and the deal is that they usually only sell in bulk. What is bulk you may ask? 100tons. I have worked out a deal with the plant supervisor at marcona to get a truckload (pickup truck - about 1 ton) of oolithic sand (washed dried and sifted) for about $20.00 I have also worked it out to get a truckload from jacksonville of the non strained variety (full of shells and stuff).

All of this comes from a cay in the bahamas where Marcona has a 24/7 mining operation and fills a boat that has a 3000ton/hr conveyer! (big boat) anyways, they WILL NOT SELL IT TO YOU if you even mention the words: fish, aquarium, tank, reef, saltwater, etc. They WILL sell it to you if you tell them its for your shrubs in your front yard and that you have used it before lots of times and that you are sure that this what you want. The key here is that you have to make a trip to either Ft. Pierce or Jacksonville, FL Monday - Friday 7am-4pm. Thats it, no alternatives. I am thinking about doing it soon, but have to take time off work... i will try and post here if i do get it, just to fill everyone in.

Give them a call - tell them you want it for your bushes. They will sell it to you.. but you have to shovel it yourself.. (the smallest front end loader they have carries 5 yards )

________________

Thanks to goby for all that work a year ago! Here is how to get in touch w/ Marcona

Marcona Ocean Industries
20 Avenue M
Fort Pierce, FL 34952
561-464-1836

4018 Retford Dr
Jacksonville, FL 32225
904-646-3595

There you go Southern Reefers - have at it. Appreciation for my dilligence, hardwork & effort can be sent in the form of frags.

GV"....