I vacuumed a four year old sand bed.......

[Anonymous]

I don't know if that is true. Some animals are more efficient at processing food, the more efficient, the less waste. Goldfish are not very good at processing waste.


PS
Thanks for the tank compliments, SM!

 

[Anonymous]

I don't know if that is true. Some animals are more efficient at processing food, the more efficient, the less waste. Goldfish are not very good at processing waste.


PS
Thanks for the tank compliments, SM!

No animal passes 10% efficiency, that's an ecological rule.

 

[Anonymous]

]

No animal passes 10% efficiency, that's an ecological rule.

Right! But there is variation in that 10%, right? So a goldfish could be like 5%, while a neon would be 8%. I love making up numbers!

 

[Anonymous]

]

No animal passes 10% efficiency, that's an ecological rule.

Right! But there is variation in that 10%, right? So a goldfish could be like 5%, while a neon would be 8%. I love making up numbers!

Absolutely, I love pointing out absolutes!

 

[Anonymous]

I don't know if that is true. Some animals are more efficient at processing food, the more efficient, the less waste. Goldfish are not very good at processing waste.


PS
Thanks for the tank compliments, SM!

What can I say? R, your tank rox.

 

[Jolieve]

Um shroom, that is entirely possible. It's kinda like... joe schmoe over there eats more and exercises less than you do... and he comes to you not understanding why he weighs more...

The same philosophy applies to fish. My chromis are more active than my clowns, my clowns produce more waste, even though the chromis are larger and all five fish get about the same amount of food.

 

[DeChamp]

12 years I started a Bare bottom Berlin style tank, best thing going at the time (according to Albert Thiel). The only problem was lots of maintenance,and High No3. The trials on the sand beds looked very inviting with zero N03. Well it didn't take long to decide to put a sand bed in my built in 90g. Its been in action for almost 2 years with no No3 and very little water changes. I would have to say that this concept even though old is a great asset to the hobby. Back to the main topic: "compacted sand" I beleive if you would have mixed different grain sizes in your sand bed the chances of compaction would be less likely. Try mixing some larger grain sand /crushed coral in your sand bed.

 

[dgasmd]

A good looking tank, with diverse critters in it, with good water quality, that I hardly ever have to touch.

Your turn!

OK, so, so far your definition and mine are the same. Like yourself, I also hardly ever have to touch mine either. I spend about 5-10 min/day feeding the fish in the evening, about 5-7 sec in the AM and PM as I leave and come in to look over everything and make sure everything is working as it is supposed to. Every 10-15 days, I spend about 5-10 min. literally, doing a 50g water change and preparing water for the next time. I clean my skimmer every 3-4 days, which takes me about 5-10 min. About every 2 months, I scrape the corraline off the glass. That takes hours really. 1-2 times per week I spend 1-2 min passing the magnet and about 10 min. blowing off the rocks with a turkey baster.

My corals grow like weed and the fish are fatter than me. That is hard to imagine actually.

I have a pretty saturated DSB now and it is my only regreat in the tank. It is pumping PO4 back into the tank constantly. How do I know? My routine has been the same since the tank started. 6 months ago, I started to ahve algae blooms out of nowhere. I wanted to increase the flow in my tank, but can't do that since the tank would turn into a SD milk shake. Now I am stocked running PO4 media all the time to control the product of the DSB. That is my definition of not working. I could care less about the DSB having bugs in it. I didn't get into the hobby to see bugs. That is why I referd to it as bug collection and bug farms.

 

[DeChamp]

dimaggio, Do you have a sump with macro algae in it? If not, it will help control the P04. This was the same problem I had encountered a year ago. I added a sump with some caulerpa bye bye P04.

 

[Jolieve]

dimaggio, there are a lot of other possible reasons for your algae problems. Have you checked the water coming out of your RO unit? Do you have any competing macro algae in the system? How is your clean up crew population doing? Did you add new lights to the tank about six months ago? Did you add any new fish to the tank at that time? What's your ca level like? Have you tested for nitrates? Did you change salts six months ago? Have you checked with your water district to see if they changed anything in the water supply six months ago (this one seems incredibly likely to me, all other things being equal)?

Before you blame the dsb... you really need to make sure that you have covered all the other bases, particularly your source water. You never know. My water district swaps around chemicals to treat for things three or four times a year, I didn't know that until after I set up my tank. I had no idea that there was a phosphorous mine an hour and a half away from my house. I didn't know they were treating our tapwater to combat phosphate content. I knew.. none of this. Now that I know what's in my water... I can't drink the stuff out of the tap anymore.

Some food for thought.

J.

 

[dgasmd]

Jolieve:

Have you checked the water coming out of your RO unit? YES. TDS OUT OF RO IS 7 AND 0 AFTER DUAL DI CHAMBERS
Do you have any competing macro algae in the system? YES, I AHVE A 100G REFUGIUM WITH LR AND TONS OF MACROALGAE
How is your clean up crew population doing? GOOD. SAME AS BEFORE PRETTY MUCH
Did you add new lights to the tank about six months ago? NOT REALLY. I REPLACED MY MH FROM RADIUM TO USHIO ABOUT 3 MONTHS AFTER ALL THE ALGAE STARTED. NO CHANGE IN ALGAE SINCE.
Did you add any new fish to the tank at that time? YES, I AHVE A LARGE FISH POPULATION WHICH IS THE REASON THE SAND IS SATURATED WITH POOP.
What's your ca level like? 12 DKH AND 450 CA
Have you tested for nitrates? IT IS 0
Did you change salts six months ago? NO. IT HAS BEEN IO FROM DAY ONE.
Have you checked with your water district to see if they changed anything in the water supply six months ago (this one seems incredibly likely to me, all other things being equal)? NO, BUT GIVEN A 0 TDS CONCISTANTLY, I WOULD NOT WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT THIS ALTHOUGH IT IS POSSIBLE.

My concept remains the same. I rather remove the detritus and poop as it is produced with heavy flows and skimming than having to compact it in a DSB and pretend some bugs are going to make it disappear. That is a definition of a non-working system. Regardless of how much all of us do, there is a finite limitation to a DSB and despite all the work, none of us will be able to keep it going. It requires more care and work than the rest of the tank combined. Read some of the post by Dr. Shimek in the last few months and you'll realize he knows this is a problem. He has admitted numerous times in a few different way that this is an impossibility in a close system. He has never said it directly and flat out, but the man himself has admitted to not being able to keep one DSB going properly himself. Then, he says all the detrivore kits and such from all the people that sells them are not enough and do not have the "right" type of bugs. We could go on forever back and forth about this. Maybe what is obvious and green is not so and blue to others.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

 

[Anonymous]

My concept remains the same. I rather remove the detritus and poop as it is produced with heavy flows and skimming than having to compact it in a DSB and pretend some bugs are going to make it disappear. That is a definition of a non-working system. Regardless of how much all of us do, there is a finite limitation to a DSB and despite all the work, none of us will be able to keep it going. It requires more care and work than the rest of the tank combined. Read some of the post by Dr. Shimek in the last few months and you'll realize he knows this is a problem. He has admitted numerous times in a few different way that this is an impossibility in a close system. He has never said it directly and flat out, but the man himself has admitted to not being able to keep one DSB going properly himself. Then, he says all the detrivore kits and such from all the people that sells them are not enough and do not have the "right" type of bugs. We could go on forever back and forth about this. Maybe what is obvious and green is not so and blue to others.

I am not sure what the point of this paragraph is, as it seems no one is advocating 'Dr' style sandbeds.

 

[Jolieve]

What are Dr. style sand beds anyway?

My sand is an average of 4" deep, though it's been kicked around by the clowns quite a bit. They periodically do "house cleaning" in their cave and build a huge ditch, which I think is just neat. It's one of the reasons I like my sandbed. The clowns play in the stuff. In a bb tank, they would have no sand to play in and it wouldn't be nearly as entertaining. *chuckle*

J.

 

[Jolieve]

dimaggio... check your water supply. For all you know, the local sewer project polluted the water supply, and they haven't gotten around to treating your tap water for it yet... and worse, you're drinking the stuff.

Well... okay probably not that drastic, but... I still think that you should know exactly what is in the water, and what could possibly be escaping the ro unit and exactly what goes into your tank.

J.

 

[Anonymous]

What are Dr. style sand beds anyway?

Dr Ron style sand bed, what is mostly though of when someone says DSB. A deep sand bed with critters stocked that is never disturbed, and that is thought by some to be able to deal with all detritus in a tank.

 

[dgasmd]

OK, so obviously we have been talking about different things from the begining. That is why I asked earlier to define "work". So, can you define Righty sand bed and can you define how it "works" for you?

 

[Anonymous]

I have a 3-4 inch sandbed in a tank with a big skimmer that runs wet, good flow and lots of macros in the sump. Every 4-6 months I go at the sandbed with a powerhead while filtering the water with a micron sock on the overflows and a canister filter with a micron catridge (because I have it). So, I don't let much detritus fill up the sand bed by exporting pretty well all the time and from time to time I do a major export.
I don't know if I would feel good about doing this to a sandbed that had never been stirred. If I were to do it again, I would use less sand.
It works because I like the look of sand, and I have a healthy tank.

 

[Anonymous]

hey Righty,

i see more and more people talking about the wet skimmate.
what is the idea behind running it wetter?

 

[AFH]

The opinions express her are my own.

When I moved to a bigger tank I removed an old deep sand bed from a 125. The old sand was filthy and stunk of h2S. The tank was established for 4 years when switched. Its replacement has been established for over 2 years. I placed 6 inches of sand in my new tank. And about 4 inches in my sump. About 3 weeks ago I remove the sand from my sump it was filthy also. I change 25 gallon every 2 weeks. I have over 100 snails of different kind’s, crabs ,sea cucumbers which eat what ever food reaches the sand. I have various algae in my sump which I remove on a regular basis for nutrient export . I have 2 mangroves growing in a remote sand bed. But yet the sump was sand was still filthy

Correct me if I am wrong, phosphate is and excellent plant fertilizer. I though the use and harvest of various algae lower phosphates? I am going to test the waist water when I start removing some of sand from my display tank.

Do I believe I have a ticking time bomb yes. The reason I came to this conclusion is, I saw grunge and filth from my old sand bed and sump/refugium.

My plans are to uses remote sand bead in the future and plenty of macro algae .


Other thoughts :
Two fish that eat the same may not have the same amount of waist. Growth and metabolism are factors.

I am not a marine biologist; I know some of you are.

 

[Anonymous]

Pod,

Running the skimmer wetter means it takes out more stuff, or another way to put it, it is less choosy about what it exports.