I recently removed a fish eating star from my tank (came attached to a piece of LR). Its currently sitting in a plastic bag. Is there any market for these things out there? I mean does anyone want it? I might just bring it back to my LFS so he can step on it.
Fish eater!
- Thread starter _range_
- Start date
Wow.
What an irresponsible post!
So it was a hitch hiker? What did you see it do? Can you be certain it ate the fish, eg, you saw it catch and eat it? What species/color was it? All brittlestars will happily consume and dead or dying animal, but only a few are known to be predatory. Ditto for seastars.
Please share your experience in detail so that you can help others, so that they know to avoid certain animals.
Take it back to the LFS so he can find it a decent home. Where do you live? I'd be happy to take it myself.
No animal in this trade ASKED to be put in your tank. And no animal in our tanks is doing anything that isn't instinctive. Let's try to keep that in mind.
If you think you were joking, it isn't. This sort of thing does happen. And a few of us take it seriously. I hope you meant it in jest.
What an irresponsible post!
So it was a hitch hiker? What did you see it do? Can you be certain it ate the fish, eg, you saw it catch and eat it? What species/color was it? All brittlestars will happily consume and dead or dying animal, but only a few are known to be predatory. Ditto for seastars.
Please share your experience in detail so that you can help others, so that they know to avoid certain animals.
Take it back to the LFS so he can find it a decent home. Where do you live? I'd be happy to take it myself.
No animal in this trade ASKED to be put in your tank. And no animal in our tanks is doing anything that isn't instinctive. Let's try to keep that in mind.
If you think you were joking, it isn't. This sort of thing does happen. And a few of us take it seriously. I hope you meant it in jest.
How about trying to be a bit nicer. Not all of us value the life of a sand star the same as that of higher organisms. Ophiroid- you have never stepped on a spider or other insect?? Anyone who keeps animals in their care for pleasure is no more morally superior to someone who steps on them for their pleasure.
Ernie
Actually I have a nice little insect trap thing that I use to remove insects as best I can. However, I am quite fond of the little jumping spiders, and have rescued a few from my cats. I have many colleagues who study them, so it wouldn't seem right to kill them.
However, we are talking about a situation where someone knowingly and willingly brought "live rock" in all its glory and praise into his home, complete with the animals that were happily living in it in the wild. You have to take the good with the bad. People now keep and willingly buy mantis shrimp, pistol shrimp, and even bristle worms (the former curse of the hobby!).
Sorry, maybe it is just me, but I do not believe saying "let him step on it" is in anyway different from saying "I'm going to flush it." :roll: But if some make the distinction, OK.
I would like to hear the full story of what happened. There is only one brittlestar that I know of that is a known predator. For science sake, share the story. I want to know what happened. I am not certain this is even a brittlestar, which would make the story even more interesting. I am sure scientists would want to know about a fish eating seastar!! I am sure if we are ready to step on the star, the animal was seen catching and eating the fish. (why the fish wasn't saved is beyond me if this is the case). But unless this was seen, it is not a safe assumption and the animal doesn't deserve to be killed.
Forgive me if I have a passion. I study these animals, and, if I had my way, would outright ban some of them. Brittlestar police...I may be the only member, but I am. You get a bit touchy when you know a bit more about some animals. Animals don't deserve to be killed simply because they had the misfortune of ending up in our tanks, if they must, then there are humane ways to do it (which I would happily share). It didn't sound like this animal was in for humane treatment.
I take great offense to the tone of his post, and I will post in an equally abrupt style, thanks very much. Why do you think many scientists have such little respect for hobbyists? Case in point. I do hope he meant this in jest, and can tell us that he did the responsible thing and simply traded the animal back in.
"I have an animal I don't want, I think it killed a fish, I think I will trade it in now. What do you think" would have been fine and even potentially productive. I only keep brittlestars and would have been happy to take it and pay for shipping, etc. These animals also do quite well in refugia or even a sump. Many alternatives.
Flippant posts call for appropriate answers. There was no need for the remark at the end. If not serious, it deserved some sort of emoticon use. That is what they are there for. I do hope that _range_ proves I am wrong, really I do, I wasn't at all happy with this when I read it last night.
However, we are talking about a situation where someone knowingly and willingly brought "live rock" in all its glory and praise into his home, complete with the animals that were happily living in it in the wild. You have to take the good with the bad. People now keep and willingly buy mantis shrimp, pistol shrimp, and even bristle worms (the former curse of the hobby!).
Sorry, maybe it is just me, but I do not believe saying "let him step on it" is in anyway different from saying "I'm going to flush it." :roll: But if some make the distinction, OK.
I would like to hear the full story of what happened. There is only one brittlestar that I know of that is a known predator. For science sake, share the story. I want to know what happened. I am not certain this is even a brittlestar, which would make the story even more interesting. I am sure scientists would want to know about a fish eating seastar!! I am sure if we are ready to step on the star, the animal was seen catching and eating the fish. (why the fish wasn't saved is beyond me if this is the case). But unless this was seen, it is not a safe assumption and the animal doesn't deserve to be killed.
Forgive me if I have a passion. I study these animals, and, if I had my way, would outright ban some of them. Brittlestar police...I may be the only member, but I am. You get a bit touchy when you know a bit more about some animals. Animals don't deserve to be killed simply because they had the misfortune of ending up in our tanks, if they must, then there are humane ways to do it (which I would happily share). It didn't sound like this animal was in for humane treatment.
I take great offense to the tone of his post, and I will post in an equally abrupt style, thanks very much. Why do you think many scientists have such little respect for hobbyists? Case in point. I do hope he meant this in jest, and can tell us that he did the responsible thing and simply traded the animal back in.
"I have an animal I don't want, I think it killed a fish, I think I will trade it in now. What do you think" would have been fine and even potentially productive. I only keep brittlestars and would have been happy to take it and pay for shipping, etc. These animals also do quite well in refugia or even a sump. Many alternatives.
Flippant posts call for appropriate answers. There was no need for the remark at the end. If not serious, it deserved some sort of emoticon use. That is what they are there for. I do hope that _range_ proves I am wrong, really I do, I wasn't at all happy with this when I read it last night.
Not any different from building a home in the insects' habitat and then killing them when they enter your domicile.
As for scientists not liking hobbyists, well there are many different kinds of scientists, (just as there are many types of hobyists) some have a very minimal respect for life, IMO, others a high respect for life.
IMO this hobby is no more amoral than eating fried chicken or a McDonald's hamburger.
I try to respect the life in my tank, but recognize that there is little difference in killing a creature in my care out of ignorance for the creature's needs and willingly stepping on it. There is no room for moral superiority in our hobby.
Ernie
While I'm not a big brittlestar fan, I do understand where Ophiuroid is coming from. All of the animals in your tank want to live, not just that expensive fish you bought.
I have in one of my tanks an unknown crab that came in on some LR that I bought. When I talk about my tank and it's inhabitants, I have been advised over and over again to take the crab out and kill it. Frankly I don't understand why as the creature has never hurt anything in the tank, and I do target feed it. Even if it does prove to be harmful, why should I kill it? It certainly did not ask to come into my tank, just the opposite, I ripped it out of it's home! Instead I'll get a critter cage and keep it in there submerged in the tank.
Even though I believe that _range_ is joking, it would be good to make sure that others know this for a fact. There are many, many people who think nothing of killing an animal (especially fish and inverts) if it doesn't suit them. They consider them 'disposable'.
I have in one of my tanks an unknown crab that came in on some LR that I bought. When I talk about my tank and it's inhabitants, I have been advised over and over again to take the crab out and kill it. Frankly I don't understand why as the creature has never hurt anything in the tank, and I do target feed it. Even if it does prove to be harmful, why should I kill it? It certainly did not ask to come into my tank, just the opposite, I ripped it out of it's home! Instead I'll get a critter cage and keep it in there submerged in the tank.
Even though I believe that _range_ is joking, it would be good to make sure that others know this for a fact. There are many, many people who think nothing of killing an animal (especially fish and inverts) if it doesn't suit them. They consider them 'disposable'.
bowser":2bweo5j7 said:
At the store I work at, there was a 12 g eclipse tank called the "tank of ill repute" where the crabs and other misc. unwanteds were taken. I have a sump of ill repute in the back of my nano where I recently placed a small crab too.
But that aside, what exactly is your beef with brittlestars?
Hehee. Just kidding.
I just saw that _range_ wanted assistance from the Tang police yesterday...Now the brittlestar police (me) have been called to the seen of the tank. :lol:
Wait a minute here. I think there were two tangs with ick (perhaps) in the tank yesterday...not possible there was a sick fish cleaned up by the brittlestar in question? Maybe? What fish was eaten?
Shouldn't we at least inquire as to what happened before agreeing that we have every right to destroy these apparently insignificant "lower organisms."
Really, there is nothing like a couple of cups from the new coffeemaker to make the world look better, if not a touch jittery. 8O Actually. Starting to feel a bit ill.
Wait a minute here. I think there were two tangs with ick (perhaps) in the tank yesterday...not possible there was a sick fish cleaned up by the brittlestar in question?
Maybe? What fish was eaten? Shouldn't we at least inquire as to what happened before agreeing that we have every right to destroy these apparently insignificant "lower organisms."
Really, there is nothing like a couple of cups from the new coffeemaker to make the world look better, if not a touch jittery. 8O Actually. Starting to feel a bit ill.
Why can't we try to educate, what I thought was the purpose of this board???
The comment Range made may have been innappropriate.
The comment that was made may have been in jest.
Whatever the case, I see no reason to attack an individual on this board!
It really irks me when someone talks down to someone else who just might not know any better. We've all been there. Nobody came into this hobby knowing everything. We should just try to leave our personal feelings out of it, and do our best to share our knowledge and experiences in a productive way.
The comment Range made may have been innappropriate.
The comment that was made may have been in jest.
Whatever the case, I see no reason to attack an individual on this board!
It really irks me when someone talks down to someone else who just might not know any better. We've all been there. Nobody came into this hobby knowing everything. We should just try to leave our personal feelings out of it, and do our best to share our knowledge and experiences in a productive way.
I am sharing my opinions and experiences, which I am passionate about. I can not remove that passion. Sorry it bothers you. And I would like _range_ to share what he saw so that we can figure out exactly what happened, indeed, to educate everyone about the abilities, behavior, etc of these animals.
Now if that came across as harsh, I do apologize, but this sort of think is a serious issue.
And again, I will simply not use some sort of baby-talk, skirt around the issue, whatever, to someone because they are inexperienced. There are some things that don't really require experience.
There are things that are serious, and they need serious answers. If, because of the nature of their question, it seems they are then being talked down too, so be it.
Again, if this question had been asked in a productive way, there would be a more productive answer. But as yet, we do not know the facts. So there is only so much education that can be done. But the important questions have been asked, and this is a form of education in itself. Lets get these questions answered. If, in fact, the animal was seen killing and eating a fish, I want to try and identify it, so that others will avoid it. However, there was an illness in this tank, and that needs to be addressed. These are relevant questions, whether they appear to be unproductive or not. These are the questions reefkeepers need to ask themselves when things go wrong. There are only a few ways to learn to do so.
Speaking with passion about responsible reefkeeping in response to such a question is not, IMO, speaking down to people.
If _range_ was joking, he has my sincere apologies. Until I hear that, I will not let the pressure off. There is no hiding behind inexperience in some matters. It is not a joke to me, ever, BTW.
Now I have offered to take this animal. I have offered advice on humane ways to destroy it. I have asked to elaborate on what happened. The answers remain to be seen. But if these questions were too direct for some people, well, I don't know how to address that.
Now if that came across as harsh, I do apologize, but this sort of think is a serious issue.
And again, I will simply not use some sort of baby-talk, skirt around the issue, whatever, to someone because they are inexperienced. There are some things that don't really require experience.
There are things that are serious, and they need serious answers. If, because of the nature of their question, it seems they are then being talked down too, so be it.
Again, if this question had been asked in a productive way, there would be a more productive answer. But as yet, we do not know the facts. So there is only so much education that can be done. But the important questions have been asked, and this is a form of education in itself. Lets get these questions answered. If, in fact, the animal was seen killing and eating a fish, I want to try and identify it, so that others will avoid it. However, there was an illness in this tank, and that needs to be addressed. These are relevant questions, whether they appear to be unproductive or not. These are the questions reefkeepers need to ask themselves when things go wrong. There are only a few ways to learn to do so.
Speaking with passion about responsible reefkeeping in response to such a question is not, IMO, speaking down to people.
If _range_ was joking, he has my sincere apologies. Until I hear that, I will not let the pressure off. There is no hiding behind inexperience in some matters. It is not a joke to me, ever, BTW.
Now I have offered to take this animal. I have offered advice on humane ways to destroy it. I have asked to elaborate on what happened. The answers remain to be seen. But if these questions were too direct for some people, well, I don't know how to address that.
I do admire your passion, and do not have a problem with it. I am very passionate about several things. I understand your compassion for brittlestars. (Well, not really, but I understand your compassion for living creatures )
The tone of your post, however, I do not understand. Do you really think we will get the answers to your questions? I would think not (although I hope I am wrong). Your post could be seen as intimidating, and people who are intimidated are likely to shy away.
I really do agree with you on most counts. I would love to know the answers to all the questions you have asked. All I am saying is that a different tone may have increased the odds of getting these answers.
)The tone of your post, however, I do not understand. Do you really think we will get the answers to your questions? I would think not (although I hope I am wrong). Your post could be seen as intimidating, and people who are intimidated are likely to shy away.
I really do agree with you on most counts. I would love to know the answers to all the questions you have asked. All I am saying is that a different tone may have increased the odds of getting these answers.
ophi,
I agree the brittle stars are a facinating group of mostly harmless species. I wish more effort were made to collect some of the colorful ones that you only see in books.( Like Ophiomyxa australis) Ophiarachna incrassata has been well documented as a fish killer if given the opportunity and perhaps not kept well fed. I suspect there are other members of Ophiarachna that share this undesirable behavior.
I think Ophiomasix annulosa is an especially appealing species do you have them? I personally doubt that many people intentionally kill brittle stars. As far as starting a movement to keep people from killing pesky insects goes, I doubt it will gain widespread acceptance.
Mitch
I agree the brittle stars are a facinating group of mostly harmless species. I wish more effort were made to collect some of the colorful ones that you only see in books.( Like Ophiomyxa australis) Ophiarachna incrassata has been well documented as a fish killer if given the opportunity and perhaps not kept well fed. I suspect there are other members of Ophiarachna that share this undesirable behavior.
I think Ophiomasix annulosa is an especially appealing species do you have them? I personally doubt that many people intentionally kill brittle stars. As far as starting a movement to keep people from killing pesky insects goes, I doubt it will gain widespread acceptance.
Mitch
Wow - I really didn't expect that much controversy from that post. To ophiuroid - sorry if my post came off as half serious. I'm new to this hobby, and am unfamiliar with some of the more... passionate beliefs out there. To answer some of the questions out there - no, I have never witnessed this star eating a fish. My LFS sold the rock to me and warned me about this 'fish eating' star. In any case, he probably either should not have sold the rock to me, or removed the star before he sold it. But it made it to my tank and eventually I removed it.
I'm not home right now, but I will post an article from a volume of a coral book I have now describing the star and with sketches of him trapping a fish and consuming it. I will gladly put this star back into my tank if someone can prove to me that it will not threaten my 'hefty investments' i.e. fish. If putting the star into the sump is a feasible option - I would also consider that. If anyone would rather (ophiuroid) take this from me I'd be glad to ship it.
So by the end of the day I'll post the information that I have on this star, along with a picture of the star itself. Until then I'll keep it in a smaller tank that is currently housing a pregnant cleaner shrimp. Now ophiuroid, don't totally flip when I say this - but I was half serious about my LFS 'taking care' of the fish eater. Thats exactly the reason I haven't taken it back yet. He said that they usually just... step on them. I'm sorry if it offended you, but in either case I don't see that as a reason to 'flame' me on a board that is meant to educate novice reefkeepers. So give me a few hours and I'll post the information that I have and we can figure something out. BTW - read my signature, and perhaps some of my other posts, under the thread : mushroom frags - and it might calm you down somewhat.
I'm not home right now, but I will post an article from a volume of a coral book I have now describing the star and with sketches of him trapping a fish and consuming it. I will gladly put this star back into my tank if someone can prove to me that it will not threaten my 'hefty investments' i.e. fish. If putting the star into the sump is a feasible option - I would also consider that. If anyone would rather (ophiuroid) take this from me I'd be glad to ship it.
So by the end of the day I'll post the information that I have on this star, along with a picture of the star itself. Until then I'll keep it in a smaller tank that is currently housing a pregnant cleaner shrimp. Now ophiuroid, don't totally flip when I say this - but I was half serious about my LFS 'taking care' of the fish eater. Thats exactly the reason I haven't taken it back yet. He said that they usually just... step on them. I'm sorry if it offended you, but in either case I don't see that as a reason to 'flame' me on a board that is meant to educate novice reefkeepers. So give me a few hours and I'll post the information that I have and we can figure something out. BTW - read my signature, and perhaps some of my other posts, under the thread : mushroom frags - and it might calm you down somewhat.
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