Question about Red Sea Berlin skimmer

[alexmarto]

Hello!

I have a Red Sea berlin (sorry, no euroreefs available in Portugal ) and i need to know what is the correct position of the small inner acrylic tube inside the skimmer.

This tube has a square piece of acrilyc in one of his end's and i d'ont know if this is placed in the skimmer, faced up or down.

Anybody knows? Anybody understands my english?! :wink:

thank you very much

manklit

 

[bradsark]

the square piece of plastic in the inner tube goes down

 

[Anonymous]

you can also remove the square piece completely-this will result in a drier foam going up into the collection cup

that square piece is one of the modifications made to the original design, and also does nothing to improve the original designs performance

it actually helps to shorten the bubble path through the skimmer

i always recommended to my customers that they remove it

 

[JohnRogan]

Then why did RedSea put it in there. You think they don't know what they are doing?

You can also remove the heater from your car, but Ford would probably tell you to leave it in there.

 

[Anonymous]

Then why did RedSea put it in there. You think they don't know what they are doing?

You can also remove the heater from your car, but Ford would probably tell you to leave it in there.

i don't know why, and i do think they don't know what they were doing

the mod they made to the venturi was also a big mistake, and severely detracts from the skimmer's performance, which needs to be corrected by adding on a different venturi

a fellow hobbyist, myself, and one of the employees of red sea's fish breeding operation (the chief pathologist) did some amateur comparison testing on the berlin skimmers, while i was living, and running lfs's, in israel

it was a definite, and fairly easily determinable observation that the skimmer performance was lessened after they added the square block

companies do stupid things to otherwise fine products all the time- including ford :wink:

 

[JohnRogan]

did some amateur comparison testing on the berlin skimmers

manklit, I wouldn't go removing any pieces from your equipment based on "amateur testing"

.

 

[alexmarto]

Thank you for all the answers!!!

My conclusion based on facts:

Tried with the piece on top: It's visible a small "tornado" of bubbles inside the tube and it's also visible a big column of white (generated by small air bubbles between the two tubes.

Without acrylic piece: Only the tornado inside the smaller tube and almost no bubbles on the outside. No foam either

With the peice on the bottom of the tube: You can only imagine the tornado because the outside column of bubbles it's so dense that you can only see white. Better foam too, although i've made this experience only in two hours!!! For me this is the best choice

thanks guys!

Forgot to say that the pump is a eheim 1060 - 2260L/h, max head: 3.10m
manklit

 

[Anonymous]

Hello John. Generally that is very good advice, however, I think that you will find that vitz's information is based on years of good experience. Since he works in the trade, he also has the opportunity to glean information from a broad base. There is also a good section of FAMA (Freshwater And Marine Aquarium) magazine called "For What It's Worth" where folks share very similar information, DIY plans, hints and such. More than once a perplexing, yet common equipment problem has been fixed using advice found in that column.

 

[Anonymous]

did some amateur comparison testing on the berlin skimmers

manklit, I wouldn't go removing any pieces from your equipment based on "amateur testing"

.

fwiw: it's really a simple issue:

w/out the plastic square in place, the water flow in all three tubes becomes circular-the bubbles not only travel more slowly, through the tubes, they also follow a spiral-very easily observable difference



(we tested about 20 running skimmers on identically sized tanks, split into 2 groups,one w/, and one w/out the square pieces)

this, btw was after the initial recommendation of dr. robert brons, who had suggested to me the square will detract from the skimmers performance, and who was responsible for maintaining and running red sea's ornamental breeding facility in eilat-where they removed the square pieces themselves :wink:

i visited w/him at red sea fish farms in eilat periodically-a really nice guy, btw :wink:

a much longer bubble path, w/longer contact time for each bubble in the skimmer-two of the main factors in skimmer efficiency design

i'd suggest reading escobal's book-

'aquarium devices, and how they function'

it's also a fairly well established fact that the skimmer performs much better after modifying it to use a supplemental venturi

hopefully, megadeth will be able to chime in here, as his experience with the berlins is probably more recent than mine, and i don't recall the exact venturi mod needed

i'd just suggest you try removing the plastic square for a few weeks, and see if you notice any improvements-like less waste water, and a faster response time of the skimmer to organic surges, like after feeding, etc.

after all, you can easily always put it back :wink:

 

[bradsark]

I also would be very cautious before removing any factory installed equipment. You better know what you are doing and see if it will void the factory warranty.

 

[Anonymous]

and last but not least:

it's not the amount of foamate produced that determines how effectively a skimmer is removing organics :wink:

lots of foamate can also just mean lots of water :wink:

the only real way to judge a skimmers efficiency performance is to measure the actual amount of waste removed/per unit of time, and how long after the introduction of those wastes into the system the skimmer starts to remove them

the skimmer will naturally have a tendency to produce a much smaller amount of foam, when working as a 'vortex', yet it will also put out a far more concentrated, almost completely dry foam

at least-such was our experience :wink:

 

[alexmarto]

I believe in what you said but the truth is that i removed the acrylic piece and as i stated earlier, only the inside tornado of bulles was visible. It seems to me that the so called triple-pass performed by this unit, it's not acomplished in that manner. What do you think?

My ventury is the original that came with the unit. Is this the "problem"? Or is the pump? Do you think i should change one of these?

manklit

 

[Anonymous]

Hello John. Generally that is very good advice, however, I think that you will find that vitz's information is based on years of good experience. Since he works in the trade, he also has the opportunity to glean information from a broad base. There is also a good section of FAMA (Freshwater And Marine Aquarium) magazine called "For What It's Worth" where folks share very similar information, DIY plans, hints and such. More than once a perplexing, yet common equipment problem has been fixed using advice found in that column.

my all time favorite column of fama

 

[Anonymous]

Great skimmers, I too prefer the original design, but with a good pump & venturi, like a small little giant, and a kent venturi, makes a world of difference. L8r mega

 

[Anonymous]

I believe in what you said but the truth is that i removed the acrylic piece and as i stated earlier, only the inside tornado of bulles was visible. It seems to me that the so called triple-pass performed by this unit, it's not acomplished in that manner. What do you think?
My ventury is the original that came with the unit. Is this the "problem"? Or is the pump? Do you think i should change one of these?

manklit

the bubbles are staying in the center tube for a much longer period of time,and the larger ones will tend to migrate outward to the outer tubes, the tineier bubbles will stay in the center tube from the centripetal(?) force of the vortex formed

the tiny bubbles that stay in the smaller chamber remain in the skimmer for a longer period of total time in the skimmer, too-which was the original intent of the 'triple bypass'

you end up with far fewer bubbles 'escaping' to the skimmer overflows, as well,-a further increases of the skimmers efficiency, since fewer bubbles go to 'waste'.

the larger bubbles that 'escape' into the 2 larger diameter tubes also spend more time in the skimmer, since the vortex in the center tube also causes a spiral flow in the 2 outer tubes.this is still where the 'triple bypass' remains a plus

with the plastic plate in place-the skimmer certainly looks far more impressive-with that neat looking wall of foam-that's a purely visual effect, though-and one i'm not very interested in :wink:

if you get a surge of organics in the tank, or add a few drops of 'stress coat' near the skimmer's intake, you will also see a big increase in the amount of bubbles that fill up the 2 outer tubes

regarding the venturi mod: the better person to ask about that is megadeth, and i hope he'll chime in here-i stopped working w/skimmers around '99-before red sea made their second, imho, big mistake, by changing their design

the design change could simply have been one of pure economics, or even the result of a business deal with the pump manufacturer that supplies them with the present pump assembly :wink:

i also think that if a stronger pump is used, with the venturi addition-the berlin's performance can be enhanced even more

the 3 tube design is a very smart idea-it effectively gives you a taller reaction chamber in a shorter piece of equipment


for the record-i like red sea's original designs very much, and i used their salt almost exclusively when i ran my reef tanks at home, and had occasion to use it in stores from time to time

i have nothing personal against the company per se

but there are many products made by many companies that hobbyists, and others find ways to improve upon all the time, sometimes from just 'tinkering' around

again -if anyone really wants to understand what's truly happening inside a skimmer, and which factors affect its efficiency/performance-the escobal book is a must read item :wink:

just my $0.03 :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

oops-looks like mega replied while i was posting-hehe