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Robert Jordan

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Terry,
I started an macro algae refugium with Caulerpa racemosa about 7 weeks ago to help with both nitrate and Phosphate control and I am dosing it also with an iron supplement. I am adding one drop per day to the 4.75 gallon refugium. This seems too little at first but it is based closely on the manufacturers recommendation of 8 drops per 50 gallons per day. The refugium is gravity fed with a ball valve on the intake side to shut down the flow and this allows me to just treat the refugium. A small pump maintains circulation. I let the Caulerpa take up iron for two hours. Afterwhich I then turn the gravity flow back on and this 4.75 gallons is then diluted by the other 90 gallons in my system. I prefer to run my refugium this way until the long term effects pro or con are noted by others who may be dosing their systems based on the capacity of their tanks and the refugium. This is what I noticed: When the lights come on, I can see new growth of the algae and the grapes are pale in color. But upon inspection two hours after dosing, all the pale grapes have changed to light green and eventually change to dark green as they grow. I cannot say for sure if its the iron supplement by itself or could it be in combination with photosynthesis that cause's the greening up of the grapes. But then I decided to increase the dose to four drops. Afterwhich on the following days, I did not see pale grapes. All the small grapes were light green. This gives some evidense to lean towards the iron supplement as having more influence on the color. But other factors come into play here. My last test's for nitrate and phosphate were reading 24 ppm nitrate ion and 0.08 ppm phosphate and after placing phosphate remover in service, it may now become the limiting factor for the successfull growth of the algae. My aim is not to make PO4 undetectable but just to maintain it at a manageable level. I believe long term use of the refugium and iron dosing will make it clear as to it's benefits. Two of my daylight compacts were recently replaced and there is a noticeable difference in expansion and better appearance in two of my LPS. One is an Elegence and the other is an Alveopora. At this time, I don't think the iron dosing has much influence on my corals due to the very small dose the system receives overall. Time will tell. Bob.
 

cvye

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Before I made a misstep, I thought I'd try an algae filter in isolation. I have a "crashed" 40g breeder with not-so-live rock, Derbesia, a few featherduster worms, and Chaetomorpha in the water column.

So far the micro algae do very well competing against the chaetomorpha, even with significant iron dosing. I'm not sure these things work as advertised.

If there's another "nutrient" that macro algae can take advantage of to out-compete micro algae, let me know, but I kind of doubt there's a nutrient-based selection process going on.

I think it's more that there's a grazing-based selection. Those refugia replete with amphipods and other micro-grazers appear to have the macroalgae out-compete the micros; iron dosing simply keeps the macroalgae healthy. (My "algae filter" has no bugs left in it due to the crash - and would be the atypical refugium, but as such is removing the grazing variable from the experiment).
 

Robert Jordan

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Cvye,
I installed my algae rufugium to get better control of nitrates and phosphates. I do not have a problem with microalgae. I am beginning to see improvement because I also increased my water changes from 5% to 10% per week. You may have something there about iron dosing that just helps macroalgae grow. As an outside gardener, iron is used to help plants green up better. Nitrates and phosphates are most likely the key nutrients. Those dosing iron must be vigilant , as a cyanobacteria breakout can occur if too much is added. I hope others realize that iron dosing is experimental and it will be awhile before all the pro's and con's are in. Bob.
 

cvye

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Robert Jordan":1x839ocf said:
Cvye,
You may have something there about iron dosing that just helps macroalgae grow. As an outside gardener, iron is used to help plants green up better.

I think that jury is out on nutrient control. While there was a study often quoted about how macro algae predominate in nutrient rich reefs, and micro algae with less nutrients, these were in real-world conditions where grazing factors were not controlled for.
There's also the work done by Adey where he notes that microalgae are more efficient at nutrient uptake than macroalgae Micro algae prevail under low nutrient conditions because they are efficient, but they are not less effective than macro algae under higher nutrient conditions (as the first study seems to indicate)...in fact Adey talks about how macro algae lose efficiency by forming more complicated structures....But unlike vascular plants, macro algae are not fundamentally different than their microalgae counterparts - algae is algae. They are just less efficient.

In a refugium with amphipod populations, you might be able to sustain macroalgae without noticeable microalgae as well, but you could run the risk of having the microalgae show up in the main tank at the same time, provided that the micrograzers are being culled by an active fish population in the main tank. (see Terry's report of having Bryopsis in his display tank).
 

Robert Jordan

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Cvye,
Thanks for the info about Adey's work. I recall when I first entered the hobby that my nutrients were much lower (NO3 ion 5ppm) and (PO4 0.03 ppm or less) and I always had a persistant microalgae problem. As I gained experience, I learned to keep it under control. When I decided to experiment with placing a blue acrylic filter under my lights, I noticed that the micro was starting to disappear. Coincidence; maybe. But it has not returned and soon after that, nutrients started to increase. and still no microalgae has appeared. I still have the filter but it is not presently being used. My limited testing of intensity and spectrum changes indicates to me that if both are altered, algae growth is affected. So as my macroalgae tank matures and if it helps lower the nutrients, I will keep an eye out for new growth of microalgae. If it shows up again, I can play the balancing act to find out at what values the nitrate and phosphate can be without the fear of microalgae appearing in the main tank by either placing the filter back in service or isolating the macroalgae tank water for a few weeks. Bob.
 

randy holmes-farley

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So far the micro algae do very well competing against the chaetomorpha, even with significant iron dosing. I'm not sure these things work as advertised.

If there's another "nutrient" that macro algae can take advantage of to out-compete micro algae, let me know, but I kind of doubt there's a nutrient-based selection process going on.


FWIW, that is contrary to the experience of a great many people who had microalgae and macroalgae in competition, and when iron was supplemented, the balance tipped toward success of the macroalgae at the expense of the microalgae.
 

cvye

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It wasn't my experience that high nutrients (high means still undetectable but high by reef standards!) favored macros over micros, and it also appears to be the case with Mr. Baker's refugium, quoted with permission from reefcentral:

FWIW, I added Rowaphos about a month ago. I tested zero phosphates prior to its addition, but I had some nasty hair/pillow/brown/slimy algae in my refugium that was out competing my macros. Since its addition, I still test zero phosphates, but the algae has all but disappeared. I'm satisfied with the product. I'm interested in the Salifert product because I've heard it's much cheaper than the Rowaphos.

Thanks,

Ryan
 

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