How much would you pay?

[GLD]

Two identical fish in two identical tanks in one LFS:

Fish #1: has a "Green" Certification that confirms proper collection and handling -- nets, no damage to reefs, optimal shipping arrangements, etc.


Fish #2: looks identical to Fish #1 but does not have any indication of origin, mode of entrapment or subsequent handling from diver to LFS.

How much more (if any) would you pay for Fish #1?

My answer: 50%

 

[EmilyB]

Well, given my local LFS (plural), they would move the sign according to what fish would sell best....so I would never trust them to adequately represent the truth.

Sad, but true.

In a perfect world I would pay double.

 

[wombat1]

Neither. How can you trust a LFS that sells one as if it's "reef friendly" and another that's not at the same time??? If they can get fish with a green sticker, why don't all their fish have one??

 

[aquarist=broke]

When I consider buying a fish, I look at all the fish and choose the one with certain characteristics. I watch the potential fish and compare it's behaviors to the others. I also ask if they could feed the fish and make sure it eats. If it has a green special sticker but acts or looks strange or sick I would probably get the "healthier" one regardless of sticker or not. I do, however, believe that any information about the background and origins of an animal is invalueable and would be worth a reasonably inflated price. Say 30% more?

 

[john f]

This is a good thread.

I have argued with some in the Industry forum that reefers ARE willing to pay a premium for a net caught fish and properly conditioned fish.
Emily brings up a good point about having to trust your LFS, which can be difficult to impossible at times.

That said, my LFS last week had 1 Austrailian Tuskfish for $99 and one Phillipine Tuskfish for $59. They sold the Australian BEFORE the Phillipine fish so someone else besides me was quick to pay an 83% premium for a better fish.


John

 

[O P Ing]

hi.
I would pay the same for both fish, but will pay an extra for the certificate, depends on the quality of the paper , and other factors (5 cent for a photocopy, for example, and $20 if it is the very same paper that US currency is printed on).

Being a cynics, I bet that 14 yrs old LFS boy switched the fish, and have the one that originally came with the certificate in his tank at home. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

I would pay a premium for the "green" fish (lets say 50% more for the purposes of your poll) but I agree with the other posters that there are some verification and LFS issues in this scenario.

I would rather have one of the choices be captive-bred.

 

[ChrisRD]

I would rather have one of the choices be captive-bred.

I second that - I plan to ONLY put captive bred/propagated specimens in my current system, as well as my future systems to the extent possible.

To answer the question though (and I will ONLY buy from an LFS that I trust), I would buy the responsibly collected fish - price would not be an issue. If I wanted that specimen, I could care for it properly, and I could afford the asking price I would buy it. If I could not afford the responsibly collected fish and I could afford the cheaper one - I'd leave the store empty handed.

Responsibly collected and captive propagated specimens will only become the norm if we DEMAND it as hobbyists. I won't buy anything else, no matter how cheap it is. If I wanted to save money, I WOULDN'T HAVE A REEF TANK. :wink:

 

[ReefLion]

I would probably pay twice as much for the green specimen, and approximately five times as much for tank raised specimens.

Tim

 

[SPC]

I would easily pay double if I could varify it. Lets all remember that we are asking this question on a reef board where the answers are going to come mostly from true hobbiest. It would be interesting to see the response from the other 99.9% of the people in the world who purchase marine fish.

john f posted:

That said, my LFS last week had 1 Austrailian Tuskfish for $99 and one Phillipine Tuskfish for $59. They sold the Australian BEFORE the Phillipine fish so someone else besides me was quick to pay an 83% premium for a better fish.

-To be fair John, this senario could have alot of different variables as to why this person purchased the Australian fish and not just the fact it was net caught.
Steve

 

[john f]

Steve,

What other variables?

I saw both fish: Both about the same size, both active and alert, and both actually looked about the same.



John

 

[Minh Nguyen]

I paid 30 dollars for a tank raise Percula clown before and did not buy larger wild collected Percula for 15 dollars at the same LFS
I am not sure I would trust a green collection certification. I would pay more for healthier, disease free and better color fish. How much more depends on how much better.

 

[SPC]

Posted by johnf:

What other variables?

I saw both fish: Both about the same size, both active and alert, and both actually looked about the same.

-Well in that case it appears that this person knew what to buy. I know that at my LFS you could stand there for a month and never have a person know the difference . It is also my understanding from people in the business, that most of the Australian fish go to Japan and Germany because they are consistently willing to pay more for quality fish.
Steve

 

[Minh Nguyen]

Harlequin Tusks from Australia have better color than those from other part of the Pacific. Younger Tusks have duller color. You can tell the different if you know what to look for. I was told that as they get older, the differences become more apparent.

 

[Anonymous]

I would pay double for the fish with the green certification.

I do prefer captive bred and raised fish, but some fish you can't get anything but wild caught, and I think the certificate is a good way to go, provided it actully means something.

 

[turtlespd]

i would pay only what i feel the fish is worth regardless of any paper work unless you are talking about thousand dollar fish here. If thery are run of the mill average fish we see in lfs i would just choose one that looks the best. I have been reefing too long to let anyone tell me a noncaptive fish wont thrive in my tank. The paper doesnt mean the fish will live a great life in your tank either.

Paul

 

[ChrisRD]

I have been reefing too long to let anyone tell me a noncaptive fish wont thrive in my tank. The paper doesnt mean the fish will live a great life in your tank either.

That's not the point. It's an added benefit that responsibly collected wild fish or captive bred fish are more likely to thrive in captivity, but that's not the main issue IMO. I just don't want to support (and thereby condone) irresponsible collection methods.

Dr. Peter J. Rubec of the International Marinelife Alliance (IMA) estimates that cyanide kills an average of 50% of fishes exposed at the point of collection and about 30% of the survivors in each link of the commercial chain (collector > buyer > exporter > importer > wholesaler > LFS). By Rubec's calculations more than 90% of fishes collected with cyanide die before they reach the home aquarium.

I've read estimates of 90% survival rates for hand net caught fish. Also, the above paragraph does not even speak to how many other organisms on the reefs are destroyed using drug collection methods. Fish caught with nets can be removed from the reefs with minimal impact to surrounding organisms. Fish bred and raised in captivity have zero impact on reef organisms.

If you haven't read it yet - I suggest you check out Robert Fenner's "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" - Chapter 10 "Cyanide Collection" for more information.

 

[danmhippo]

I wouldn't mind paying premium for captive bred/zero impact fish knowing it's for our own good in the long run. But sadly enough, average joe shopping for fish does not aware of the differences.

 

[JohnD]

I passed on a gorgeous wild caught perc ($30) and instead bought an equally spectacular tank-raised false perc ($12). I know they are different, but I try to buy green or tank-raised whenever possible.

My $.02.

 

[Kristen Marie]

i live in a town with 1 LFS that deals in marine. there is another that deals only in fresh water about 8 miles from here. the only other options i have for marine is another FS about 45 minutes south of here, or Spokane, WA which is about an hour and fourty minutes north.

I pretty much have no choice but to take what i can get. In theory I would pay more money for a fish that I knew was collected properly because I wouldn't constantly dwell on the health of my fish, but like i said my options are limited. the only choice i get in the matter is in clowns, my LFS sells ORA raised false percs. While I wouldn't put them in either of my large tanks right off the bat, i did buy one for my nano just because i'm sure of it's origin and i'm not worried about it "making waves" (hehe) in there.

The thing that I cant understand is that by allowing people to cyanide fish, the mortality rate is enourmous, thus driving up the cost of fish. If something were to be done about it, fish would be healthier and happier, and so would my pocket because i'm sure I wouldn't be paying nearly as much as I am for good specimens.