Joey":350myem9 said:
Getting the correlation yet?
To prevent caulerpa from going sexual, keep it pruned back. If it does go sexual, it gets cloudy and there are no ill effects in the long run.
Advantages of running 12/12:
1) Reduced electric bill
2) Can run at night to benefit buffer, O2 and prevent big temp increases during day use
3) Allows plant photosystem repairs to ocurr to maintain maximum photosynthate production and nutrient "harvesting" during light-exposed hours.
Knowing these things, why would you run 24 hours?
Also, last time I checked, my oak tree in the front yard didn't receive 24 hours of light, and if it did, I don't think it would be better off for it.
hmmm. The votes are slightly in favor of reverse daylight. (16 yes - 19 no)
Dr. Reef is making pretty good sense to me, but, like Danmhippo, I am a bean counter, not a bioligist.
Are there any biologists out there that want to refute the what Dr. Reef has stated here. Are there any Biologists out there with experience with the type of caulerpa's we typically use in our refugium?
If we run carbon 24/7, does it really matter if the caulerpa goes sexual? Seems that I've read threads where peeps claim "whole tank crash" because of caulerpa going sexual? I'm going from memory, but it seems that I've read this at least a couple of times in my 1-1/2 years in this hobby.
I'm starting to lean towards reverse daylight with carbon running 24/7 or should I just make sure I always have ample supply of carbon, just in case. And of course I would prune the caulerpa's regularly (every other week).
A penny for your thoughts :wink:
Louey
Dr. Reef is making pretty good sense to me, but, like Danmhippo, I am a bean counter, not a bioligist.
Are there any biologists out there that want to refute the what Dr. Reef has stated here. Are there any Biologists out there with experience with the type of caulerpa's we typically use in our refugium?
If we run carbon 24/7, does it really matter if the caulerpa goes sexual? Seems that I've read threads where peeps claim "whole tank crash" because of caulerpa going sexual? I'm going from memory, but it seems that I've read this at least a couple of times in my 1-1/2 years in this hobby.
I'm starting to lean towards reverse daylight with carbon running 24/7 or should I just make sure I always have ample supply of carbon, just in case. And of course I would prune the caulerpa's regularly (every other week).
A penny for your thoughts :wink:
Louey
As I stated above, Dr. Reef, caulerpa is NOT a higher order plant, it does not have a vascular system such as terrestrial plants do. It should really be thought of as a large celled algae.
I did have a tank crash in my 29g that had a 12 hr lighting period. It suffocated all my fish.
I did have a tank crash in my 29g that had a 12 hr lighting period. It suffocated all my fish.
mgk65":6i16u9bf said:As I stated above, Dr. Reef, caulerpa is NOT a higher order plant, it does not have a vascular system such as terrestrial plants do. It should really be thought of as a large celled algae.
I did have a tank crash in my 29g that had a 12 hr lighting period. It suffocated all my fish.
You are correct. In fact, most caulerpa is a single cell that forms chains. Some of the cells can be inches long. It is an alga also. Meaning it is a protist and not a plant.
Your part about the suffocation is interesting. Perhaps a lowered O2 caused the problem? This resulted from the organic matter spewed out by the aglae?
Most animals and plants reproduce when conditions are favorable. The notable exceptions are mainly protists and microanimals and these produce resting cysts that wait out favorable conditions.
I'm not so sure that bad conditions cause caulerpa to reproduce as it is good conditions.
I think they grow until they are limited asexually, then it makes sense for them to reproduce sexually with the hope of colonizing other areas. They do not realize they are in a tank. They simply think they are out of immediate habitat. This is why pruning may help prevent "spawning".
I'm not so sure that bad conditions cause caulerpa to reproduce as it is good conditions.
I think they grow until they are limited asexually, then it makes sense for them to reproduce sexually with the hope of colonizing other areas. They do not realize they are in a tank. They simply think they are out of immediate habitat. This is why pruning may help prevent "spawning".
As far as caulerpa going sexual goes, IMO it becomes a problem based on the amount of caulerpa disintegrating. I had a 90 gal with caulerpa growing all along the back glass. About a third of it went sexual at once clouding the tank, making it look like someone dumped a glass of milk in it. It cleared in about four hours. O2 depletion was a concern, but I had a skimmer going so I didn't panic with major water changes. I did replace my carbon afterward though. mgk, you only had a 29 gal tank (sump too?) and it crashed. Plus, when we spoke at the PGH frag swap I think you said you were skimmerless, correct? Could be a correlation. Skimmers pump a lot of O2 into the water.
Regarding caulerpa not being a higher order plant and not necessarily having the same light req'mts as higher order plants, I've got to remind everyone that the ocean gets darker and brighter throughout the day just like it does on land. I could be off base here (please tell me if I am), but photosynthesis occurs on a cellular level so the existence of a vascular system or roots is immaterial. Whether in algae or in a leaf the process is basically the same. If a higher order plant requires a dark "resting" period, having evolved in a daylight cycle for millions of years, wouldn't algae, evovling in the same environment, for probably even longer, have the same req'mt?
Steve
8{I
Regarding caulerpa not being a higher order plant and not necessarily having the same light req'mts as higher order plants, I've got to remind everyone that the ocean gets darker and brighter throughout the day just like it does on land. I could be off base here (please tell me if I am), but photosynthesis occurs on a cellular level so the existence of a vascular system or roots is immaterial. Whether in algae or in a leaf the process is basically the same. If a higher order plant requires a dark "resting" period, having evolved in a daylight cycle for millions of years, wouldn't algae, evovling in the same environment, for probably even longer, have the same req'mt?
Steve
8{I
Hi SteveP:
The 29g is skimmerless, too. It is my softies tank. And the caulerpa had grown out of control.
My SPS tank is a 90g and also skimmerless.
I agree that photosynthesis is cellular respiration. However, the "resting cycle" is more used for growth than photosynthesis.
In our environment, I think it is more beneficial to moderate that growth for a more stable macroalgae.
mgk
The 29g is skimmerless, too. It is my softies tank. And the caulerpa had grown out of control.
My SPS tank is a 90g and also skimmerless.
I agree that photosynthesis is cellular respiration. However, the "resting cycle" is more used for growth than photosynthesis.
In our environment, I think it is more beneficial to moderate that growth for a more stable macroalgae.
mgk
The dark cycle in photosynthesis DOES NOT requires DARKNESS. It just DOES NOT requires LIGHT.SteveP":19c0cztg said:
I try to facilitate an environment for crustaceans, worms and algae to growth in my refugium. Because of this reason, I try to provide a natural environment for them, thus a period of light and darkness. Algae are not the only organisms in my refugium.
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Minh Nguyen":1rnk9hsw said:
You seem to be contradicting youself a little here.
I'm arguing that the reason your refugium is full is because of favorable conditions. If conditions weren't favorable to caulerpa growth, would your refugium be full? No. Thus, conditions are favorable, allowing rapid expansion into all available areas. When the caulerpa can no longer grow asexually, then they send out spores to try sexual reproduction. This allows their genetic material to disperse farther in reefs and is beneficial to the plants survival long-term.
It is simply observation on my part. One of the way one can interpreted this observation is that when the refugium is full, the condition is no longer favorable for the algae thus they go into sexual reproduction mode. This is a very reasonable explanation.Dr. Reef":2h7xtbik said:
There are many known and well-documented cases when organisms go into sexual reproduction when condition becomes unfavorable while reproduces asexually when condition is favorable.
You are correct, and I mentioned that. But this seldom occurs in algae. While it does occur often in Protozoans, which are a type of Protist, I can't think of an instance off the top of my head where it occurs in algae. It even occurs in daphnia, or water fleas.
I understand that you might think running out of space is unfavorable, but they ran out of space because they were in favorable conditions.
Also, try to remember that these are not sentient creatures. Almost all aquatic invertebrates and protists take their cues from internal changes and water chemistry. Perhaps when they run out of space to grow, a hormone or plant steroid/ester builds up to a critical level inside the alga and then it cues the sexual stage.
One exception is obviously corals. These specifically take cues from light levels of the moon.
I understand that you might think running out of space is unfavorable, but they ran out of space because they were in favorable conditions.
Also, try to remember that these are not sentient creatures. Almost all aquatic invertebrates and protists take their cues from internal changes and water chemistry. Perhaps when they run out of space to grow, a hormone or plant steroid/ester builds up to a critical level inside the alga and then it cues the sexual stage.
One exception is obviously corals. These specifically take cues from light levels of the moon.
There are many well-documented case in the plant kingdom where plants goes into sexual reproduction mode when condition are harsh. Dendrobium orchids will flower only if they do not get adequate water in spring, otherwise their shoots will send up new vegetative branches instead of flowers. It is well know that pruning the root of fruit trees will cause them to produce more fruit. Cherry and apple trees will have heavier crops after a harsh winter. These are just out of the top of my head. I am sure searching into it will give more examples.
In my tank, when the Caulerpa goes sexual it usually start at the branches where it get shaded because of overgrowth. Certainly shading the plants count as unfavorable condition. My refugium have being set up for two years. I can always predict when the Caulerpa will goes sexual, if I don’t prune it. When time does not permit me to prune, it always happen as I predicted it would.
In my tank, when the Caulerpa goes sexual it usually start at the branches where it get shaded because of overgrowth. Certainly shading the plants count as unfavorable condition. My refugium have being set up for two years. I can always predict when the Caulerpa will goes sexual, if I don’t prune it. When time does not permit me to prune, it always happen as I predicted it would.
Minh Nguyen":2vgp7nyn said:
For those following the thread with interest, just a clarification that caulerpa, and all algaes, are not in the plant kingdom. They are protists, a mish-mash kingdom in which all single-celled and simple organisms are currently placed. This system is rapidly becoming outdated though.
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