hospital tank not working

[zeldapinwheel]

I started this topic on Saturday, unfortunately, it has disappeared, along with the responses I was hoping to read.

So, here is my scenario. I have a flame angel with ich. He is in a hospital tank and is being treated with copper. I have removed carbon filtration and am just using a biowheel, and have a small piece of live rock from my main tank for him to 'hide' behind.

The copper is being maintained ~0.3 ppm. I also put a neon goby in there to clean him. I also am doing daily 75% water changes. The specific gravity in the tank is 1.014. I hesitate to lower it further-the LFS I bought him at said 1.008 could stress him out more and make it worse.

Fresh water dips are being done, but I can't see that they really seem to be helping much. WHen I do the dips, what volume water should I use? And for how long? I have been doing 2 minutes.

Every day at the end of the day, he looks better, and then the next morning he looks awful again! His appetite is still fine, thank goodness, but I am not sure what to do? Could the live rock be contributing to the problem? I know the paraistes spend a part of their life cycle in the water and part on inanimate things. SHould I take it out and put in something else for the fish's sense of security?

Any and all advice is welcome.

 

[Jawbone]

I know I am going to get smacked around for this but dammmn leave that fish alone.

The Ich disease is caused by stress and or rapid temperature changes.

Please tell me your freshwater dips are in water that is the exact temperature and even more important the freshwater dip must be in water of THE EXACT PH of the hospital tank.

It seems like you are keeping him in an even more stressfull situation by treating him from this many different angles.

Then once you get him well your going to stress him out by throwing him in your big tank with all the other fishes and we start the process over again.

Granted your already treating him so keep him in the hospital tank but I would either get a bigger hospital tank, So that your water parameters dont change enough to warrant a daily 75% water change. Or change from the copper treatment your using to one that the LFS actually uses. (Probably not the one they sold you) Or even better return the angel to the LFS and get your money back or store credit until the next oppurtunity for a healthier fish arrives.

 

[zeldapinwheel]

Absolutely my dips are at the same temperature and pH as the fish is being kept in.

Ok, so I will get a bigger hospital tank. I'm using cupramine, which is the one the LFS said they use.

So, what do I do- just put him in the bigger hospital tank and monitor water quality? Use copper or not?

 

[Jawbone]

Good call on the larger tank but also get the live rock out of the tank and throw it in the trash (since it is now contaminated with copper). Get a cave decoration he can hide in or a piece of plastic pipe will work ( hopefully large enough that he can fit inside )

Sure use the medicine copper is great. I have also read the garlic food method works great too.

I just monitor the water quality of my hospital tank ( I use a hang on the back whisper filter to get rid of the floaters but have NO CARBON just floss) and if ammonia becomes a problem use amQuel and small NEW water changes so as not to disturb my patient

 

[JohnD]

I agree with Jawbone on throwing out the LR and going with a piece of PVC. You can also use a clean flower pot as a fish sanctuary.

I use a 10 gallon tank, myself. To help reduce fish stress, I have painted the 3 sides of the tank black. (It is like the idea of a horse wearing blinders. If the horse can't see what is going on on either side, he is less distracted.)

HTH

 

[Anonymous]

I have read that nets can carry cysts from cryptocaryons (spelling?). Becareful with that net, as you don't want to transfer cysts over to the main tank. Either get a new net, or I think you can boil the old one.

 

[zeldapinwheel]

okay, thanks guys. I really appreciate the input. Maybe this angel will survive yet.

 

[Topher]

I have had great results with curing ick by simply bring up the tank temp to 82 to 84 degrees for 48 hours. The fish can take the temp but when the ick becomes free swimming it can't and dies.

 

[Anonymous]

There is a lot of misinformation running around regarding the treatments for ich. Copper is one way to treat it, but IMO it's not the best way. Hyposalinity is. It is also less stressful to treat fish using this method than with copper, especially as some species are sensitive with it.
And it is so simple to do. Over the course of a couple of days, lower the salinity in the q-tank to 14-16ppt or 1.009 (at temps of 78-80. Using a refractometer is preferable as it is more accurate. Leave the levels there for 4-6 weeks. And leave the fish alone. Treating with copper, catching the fish and dipping it in freshwater, adjusting the tank temperature higher is just stressing it more.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

The Ich disease is caused by stress and or rapid temperature changes.

The parasite Cryotocaryon irritans causes ich. Stress and temperature swings weaken the fishes immune defenses that would enable it to normally fight off the parasite. If a fish isn't carrying the ich parasite, no amount of stress is going to bring it on.

 

[Jawbone]

slk3599 Thank you for pointing out my error in stating that temp and stress causes ich. we all hail in your glory for pointing out our stupidity and relish the knowledge you bestow upon us ignorant subserviant reefers.

I believe for the most part, most people understand that stress will bring forth a sickness in any living creature including you. That does not neccesarily mean that stress is the disease only that it is a method of causing something to be more easily invaded by said disease. every one easily figured it out but as slk3599 so graciously pointed out I had typed it incorrectly

 

[esmithiii]

Zeldapinwheel,

Make sure the tank cycles fully before transfering the fish.

Also, you do know that pigmy angels are not considered reef-safe, don't you? It may nip at your corals.

Ernie

 

[zeldapinwheel]

I am aware that pygmy angels can be a problem, but the only problem I have had with them really is that they don't live long enough to be a problem. This is my second one, and it will definitely be the last. I am sad to report that he is not doing very well.

 

[Anonymous]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

slk3599 Thank you for pointing out my error in stating that temp and stress causes ich. we all hail in your glory for pointing out our stupidity and relish the knowledge you bestow upon us ignorant subserviant reefers.

Your welcome

Glad to be of help!

You might want to work on developing a more thicker hide..sheesh Don't like to be corrected do you?