Just found this on MSN. Sorry if it has already been posted. Just more sad news... http://www.msnbc.com/news/624554.asp
Lydia
Lydia
Read it and weep......
- Thread starter passthesalt
- Start date
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
i believe that there is a rather large hole in the ozone layer concentrated above Australia. I know that they have higher skin cancer rates as a result. This may be whats causing the bleachin?
i believe that there is a rather large hole in the ozone layer concentrated above Australia. I know that they have higher skin cancer rates as a result. This may be whats causing the bleachin?
I have personally never observed anyone's corals in a reef tank bleach due to high temps and I gotta believe that we can see extremes in our tanks that the oceans never sees.
People (including scientists, they are actually amongst the worst) make news by over sensationalizing things. You don't get much federal grant money to study a patch of dead coral, but studying the die-off of the worlds reefs is another matter. It's all in how you spin it. I personally think this is a normal cycle that comes and goes relatively unaffected by man's doings and I seriously doubt that the worlds reefs will all be dead in 50 years. Since the year is 2001, we should all be living in space by now according to the scientist of 35 years ago.
Then again, having coral reefs off Oregon would be kinda cool.
--- Ken
People (including scientists, they are actually amongst the worst) make news by over sensationalizing things. You don't get much federal grant money to study a patch of dead coral, but studying the die-off of the worlds reefs is another matter. It's all in how you spin it. I personally think this is a normal cycle that comes and goes relatively unaffected by man's doings and I seriously doubt that the worlds reefs will all be dead in 50 years. Since the year is 2001, we should all be living in space by now according to the scientist of 35 years ago.
Then again, having coral reefs off Oregon would be kinda cool.
--- Ken
I've been reading lately and alot of people are still fearing a short term ICE age as opposed to global warming. sometime during the dark ages the gulfstream changed its flow and a good deal of europe was sent into a mini ice age. This is one of the suspected reasons for the Vikings to start venturing far away from their locale in search of a warmer climate. Many Experts have been stating recently that it would take very little to shift the gulfstream again and send parts of north america and europe into an ice age.
Coral bleaching is caused by many factors: light and especially extended periods of heat (anywhere close to 90° and above) are defintely at the top of the list. FWIW, I had 2 acoro's bleach / RTN / SDR on me due to a temperature spike in my tank 3 weeks ago. It was not a pretty sight... :/
http://liquidreef.freeservers.com/corals/RTN%2008-14-2001/20010814_cat.html
My soft corals were no worse for the experience after I got the temperature down for a couple of days but my acros and pocillo were pretty much toast. :/
liquid
http://liquidreef.freeservers.com/corals/RTN%2008-14-2001/20010814_cat.html
My soft corals were no worse for the experience after I got the temperature down for a couple of days but my acros and pocillo were pretty much toast. :/
liquid
IMO the problem with Austrailias reef is that the damn Aussies have destroyed most of the mangrove flats. This is one of the reasons i started reef keeping, i honestly think the futre of survival for many of these corals and invertebrates is sitting in my front room. What an incredibly sorry state of affairs. To add to this i think its time that the Aussies and the rest of the world knew that the "great barrier reef" is no longer in Austrailia, and that it's a title given to the best/biggest reef in the world, and i can assure you as a reefkeeper and a diver that the reef surrounding Austrailia is no longer "great". What do we do, no one has resonsibility of the reef and thats why it gets shat on, do we blame the councils for giving planning permission, do we blame the builders and demolition crews for removing the mangrove flats, do we blame the people who moved in and bought the homes. However i do have a solution, we gather all of them together and force them through whatever means neccessary (preferably envolving excrushiating pain administered with blunt spoons) to build the biggest boat ever. Once completed we can send it out to sea and sink it. This would:
A) provide a new base for encrusting corals to grow, and shelter for beasties.
B) Kill all of the neanderthols responsible for destroying the eighth wonder of the world.
C) Provide sufficient food for reef dwelling besties and corals to grow.
Now where did i put those shackles
A) provide a new base for encrusting corals to grow, and shelter for beasties.
B) Kill all of the neanderthols responsible for destroying the eighth wonder of the world.
C) Provide sufficient food for reef dwelling besties and corals to grow.
Now where did i put those shackles
Hello everyone,
What a bunch of hooey! Global warming and the hole in the ozone layer............Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny......
Nothing but scientists looking for a cause to keep their grants flowing. Its funny how scientists find a cause like this and blow the trumpet like the earth is ending. Then they find out that they are full of crap and you never hear them say "Im sorry, I was wrong". They just kind of fade into the background. I remember in the 70s and 80s the big "problem" of the time was the hole in the ozone layer was growing at an "alarming rate" and were all going to die of skin cancer. Then all of a sudden....oops now its shrinking. When they finally figured out that the increase and decrease in size is part of a natural ebb and flow. You never heard them say "woops, I was wrong", they just disappear. Back then we heard about the hole in the ozone layer pretty much every night on the news. Now you rarely ever hear about it.
Anyway back to the article at hand. This thing is hysterical. It says that the oceans are increasing an average of 2.7 degrees per 100 years. It also says that "most reefs will disappear by 2050".
If you think about it with oceans increasing an average of 2.7 degrees per 100 years, that means that they are saying that the oceans in the next 50 years will increase less than 1.5 degrees and that will be the destruction of the worlds coral reefs!! Are you kidding me?? Do you really think that these living creatures cant adjust to a 1.5 degree difference over 50 years??
Not to mention that we have only been studying the Barrier reef for what? 50 years? So we have been studying a reef that has been forming for around 4200 years. Do you really think that reef hasnt gone through different stages of growth and decline over those 4200 years? Give me a break!
c
[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: chris ]
What a bunch of hooey! Global warming and the hole in the ozone layer............Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny......
Nothing but scientists looking for a cause to keep their grants flowing. Its funny how scientists find a cause like this and blow the trumpet like the earth is ending. Then they find out that they are full of crap and you never hear them say "Im sorry, I was wrong". They just kind of fade into the background. I remember in the 70s and 80s the big "problem" of the time was the hole in the ozone layer was growing at an "alarming rate" and were all going to die of skin cancer. Then all of a sudden....oops now its shrinking. When they finally figured out that the increase and decrease in size is part of a natural ebb and flow. You never heard them say "woops, I was wrong", they just disappear. Back then we heard about the hole in the ozone layer pretty much every night on the news. Now you rarely ever hear about it.
Anyway back to the article at hand. This thing is hysterical. It says that the oceans are increasing an average of 2.7 degrees per 100 years. It also says that "most reefs will disappear by 2050".
If you think about it with oceans increasing an average of 2.7 degrees per 100 years, that means that they are saying that the oceans in the next 50 years will increase less than 1.5 degrees and that will be the destruction of the worlds coral reefs!! Are you kidding me?? Do you really think that these living creatures cant adjust to a 1.5 degree difference over 50 years??
Not to mention that we have only been studying the Barrier reef for what? 50 years? So we have been studying a reef that has been forming for around 4200 years. Do you really think that reef hasnt gone through different stages of growth and decline over those 4200 years? Give me a break!
c
[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: chris ]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clkohly:
<STRONG>I've been reading lately and alot of people are still fearing a short term ICE age as opposed to global warming. sometime during the dark ages the gulfstream changed its flow and a good deal of europe was sent into a mini ice age. This is one of the suspected reasons for the Vikings to start venturing far away from their locale in search of a warmer climate. Many Experts have been stating recently that it would take very little to shift the gulfstream again and send parts of north america and europe into an ice age.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I remember reading somewhere that back in the Viking day's, Greenland was actually green with a warmer climate, unlike it's Icy conditions know, and that's how it's name came about, as Greenland's climate changed the Vikings could no longer survive and had to move. I can't remember word for word but it read that the earth was going through a "Global warming" then, and it was not caused by mankind, it's just a natural occurrence and that the earth will continue to change and the life on it will continue to adapt as it always has.
I believe the Reefs will survive, they may not survive were they are know but they will somewhere, the reefs have been on this earth a lot longer than we have.
I think that "Global Warming" is just a trend and it will eventually get old and the media will finally shut up about it.
<STRONG>I've been reading lately and alot of people are still fearing a short term ICE age as opposed to global warming. sometime during the dark ages the gulfstream changed its flow and a good deal of europe was sent into a mini ice age. This is one of the suspected reasons for the Vikings to start venturing far away from their locale in search of a warmer climate. Many Experts have been stating recently that it would take very little to shift the gulfstream again and send parts of north america and europe into an ice age.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I remember reading somewhere that back in the Viking day's, Greenland was actually green with a warmer climate, unlike it's Icy conditions know, and that's how it's name came about, as Greenland's climate changed the Vikings could no longer survive and had to move. I can't remember word for word but it read that the earth was going through a "Global warming" then, and it was not caused by mankind, it's just a natural occurrence and that the earth will continue to change and the life on it will continue to adapt as it always has.
I believe the Reefs will survive, they may not survive were they are know but they will somewhere, the reefs have been on this earth a lot longer than we have.
I think that "Global Warming" is just a trend and it will eventually get old and the media will finally shut up about it.
Hah, thats funny, I remember hearing that they called it Greenland so money-grubbing explorers could get funding to go on useless expeditions to frozen places.
Its odd that all over the world most scientists feel that global warming is occurring, yet all of you disagree with absolutely no evidence whatsoever.
By the way, don't confuse the causes of bleaching in aquariums with that in the wild. It appears that the current bleaching events of the last few years (if you deny that is happened you really haven't been paying attention!) are caused by high temps and not by changes in turbidity, nutrients levels or light. It seems that corals live quite close to their upper tolerance limit for temps, and could endure quite lower temps without problems.
Its odd that all over the world most scientists feel that global warming is occurring, yet all of you disagree with absolutely no evidence whatsoever.
By the way, don't confuse the causes of bleaching in aquariums with that in the wild. It appears that the current bleaching events of the last few years (if you deny that is happened you really haven't been paying attention!) are caused by high temps and not by changes in turbidity, nutrients levels or light. It seems that corals live quite close to their upper tolerance limit for temps, and could endure quite lower temps without problems.
On a positive note- corals apparently do swap various strains of zooxanthellae. During the bleaching events recently scientists discovered that even though most of a reef looks dead they will find small patches of living tissue on the corals that are harboring different strains of the symbiont that are more adaptable to the higher temps. Hopefully this would help the reef to regrow. The are thousands of species of zooxanthellae that are unnamed; apparently nobody wants to pay the money-grubbing marine biologists to study them.
[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: DanConnor ]
[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: DanConnor ]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DanConnor:
<STRONG>Hah, thats funny, I remember hearing that they called it Greenland so money-grubbing explorers could get funding to go on useless expeditions to frozen places.
Its odd that all over the world most scientists feel that global warming is occurring, yet all of you disagree with absolutely no evidence whatsoever.
By the way, don't confuse the causes of bleaching in aquariums with that in the wild. It appears that the current bleaching events of the last few years (if you deny that is happened you really haven't been paying attention!) are caused by high temps and not by changes in turbidity, nutrients levels or light. It seems that corals live quite close to their upper tolerance limit for temps, and could endure quite lower temps without problems.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe something is happening, but I believe that it’s a natural occurrence, not caused by mankind and that it's been going on ever since the beginning of time, and yea I remember something about Greenland and the money grubbing explorers too, I'm no history buff what so ever, but both events I believe could have occurred.
<STRONG>Hah, thats funny, I remember hearing that they called it Greenland so money-grubbing explorers could get funding to go on useless expeditions to frozen places.
Its odd that all over the world most scientists feel that global warming is occurring, yet all of you disagree with absolutely no evidence whatsoever.
By the way, don't confuse the causes of bleaching in aquariums with that in the wild. It appears that the current bleaching events of the last few years (if you deny that is happened you really haven't been paying attention!) are caused by high temps and not by changes in turbidity, nutrients levels or light. It seems that corals live quite close to their upper tolerance limit for temps, and could endure quite lower temps without problems.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe something is happening, but I believe that it’s a natural occurrence, not caused by mankind and that it's been going on ever since the beginning of time, and yea I remember something about Greenland and the money grubbing explorers too, I'm no history buff what so ever, but both events I believe could have occurred.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DanConnor:
<STRONG>And on what evidence do you base your belief?</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
here's some evidence:
http://www.viking.no/e/people/leif/e-green.htm
<STRONG>And on what evidence do you base your belief?</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
here's some evidence:
http://www.viking.no/e/people/leif/e-green.htm
Dan,
You wrote:
"Its odd that all over the world most scientists feel that global warming is occurring, yet all of you disagree with absolutely no evidence whatsoever. "
And what evidence is global warming based on? Less than 100 years of averaged temperatures? What were the global temperatures before that? Did they rise and decline? They dont know, because they have no readings on that. IMO, that is no evidence whatsoever. In 20 years, when all of a sudden the penjulum reaches its peak and starts to swing the other way, these scientists will clam up and fade into the background. Then after a few years of cooling other scientists will start talking about "Global Cooling" and how all of those gases that we put into the atmosphere are blocking the suns rays and the planet is cooling and plunging into a deep iceage. hehehehe OH BROTHER!! "We need federal grant money to figure out how to stop the Global Cooling!!!"
c
[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: chris ]
You wrote:
"Its odd that all over the world most scientists feel that global warming is occurring, yet all of you disagree with absolutely no evidence whatsoever. "
And what evidence is global warming based on? Less than 100 years of averaged temperatures? What were the global temperatures before that? Did they rise and decline? They dont know, because they have no readings on that. IMO, that is no evidence whatsoever. In 20 years, when all of a sudden the penjulum reaches its peak and starts to swing the other way, these scientists will clam up and fade into the background. Then after a few years of cooling other scientists will start talking about "Global Cooling" and how all of those gases that we put into the atmosphere are blocking the suns rays and the planet is cooling and plunging into a deep iceage. hehehehe OH BROTHER!! "We need federal grant money to figure out how to stop the Global Cooling!!!"
c
[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: chris ]
I don't mean to spoil the fun, but some evidence indicates that we affect our environment. In my experience, a simple internet search goes a lot farther than intuition in distinguishing good science from bad. Here's just one example I found:
Scroll to Botton and Stare at the Growing Hole in the Ozone Layer
I'm not very internet savvy, so I hope the link works. If not, here's another attempt to at least provide the address.
http://www.atm.ch.cam.ac.uk/tour/part2.html
ReefLion
Scroll to Botton and Stare at the Growing Hole in the Ozone Layer
I'm not very internet savvy, so I hope the link works. If not, here's another attempt to at least provide the address.
http://www.atm.ch.cam.ac.uk/tour/part2.html
ReefLion
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>I believe something is happening, but I believe that it’s a natural occurrence, not caused by mankind and that it's been going on ever since the beginning of time, and yea I remember something about Greenland and the money grubbing explorers too, I'm no history buff what so ever, but both events I believe could have occurred.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
heh...take the blame offt he most destructive force on earth...man.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
heh...take the blame offt he most destructive force on earth...man.
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