Clams Appearence
- Thread starter clamfoot
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A good test is to pass your hand over the clam to shade him from the light. There should be quick response to close. Then after the light has returned he should open back up. If there is no reaction to the shadow, this is what is called a sagging or gapping mantle. That is not good. hope these helps.
According to Knop (Giant Clams--if you don't have it, buy it and read it...), the mantle should be fully open. However, the incurrent and excurrent siphons shouldn't "gape" open, although they will be visible. If the mantle is wide open and the incurrent siphon is "gaping" then that's often a sign that the clam is not getting sufficient lighting. With insufficient light, the mantle will be overextended, so to speak, in an attempt to create more photosynthetic surface area.
How deep is your tank, and what lighting do you have? What kind of clam did you buy, and how large is it?
As I said, you usually should be able to see the siphons, but they shouldn't be gaping open. The retraction test mentioned in Dean's post is a good indicator of the health of the clam. The retraction should be very fast in a healthy clam--if it's sluggish, then that's not a good sign.
How deep is your tank, and what lighting do you have? What kind of clam did you buy, and how large is it?
As I said, you usually should be able to see the siphons, but they shouldn't be gaping open. The retraction test mentioned in Dean's post is a good indicator of the health of the clam. The retraction should be very fast in a healthy clam--if it's sluggish, then that's not a good sign.
It's a 3" Crocea. The tank is a standard all glass 75 gal. with about 3" of aragonite sand and the lighting is an energy savers 48" metal halide with 2 10k german bulbs(175w) and 2 40 w actinics. I placed him in the sand and at first he didn't open much but now he is wide open. I've often read that with clams and metal halide lighting, too close is far worse than too far. He retracts his mantle quickly when light passes over but I have never seen him fully close his shell shut, that's what I'm concerned about.
Most Tridacnidae cannot completely close their shells. They will only close them completely if they feel very threatened. Still, there will still be a gap in the shells because these species don't have shells that are perfectly "matched."
Based on your description of the clam and you lighting setup, it sounds like you have a healthy clam.
Based on your description of the clam and you lighting setup, it sounds like you have a healthy clam.
James,
His exhalent siphon is gaping to the point where I can see his insides. Yes, he has been trying to move while on the bottom, but I don't know if he was looking for more light or a darker spot or maybe there was a current he didn't like. I have already moved him up closer to the light, he certainly wasn't going to do any better where he was. I seriously doubt he can recover looking at his condition now. My real worry is due to the fact that I have to leave town for a few days and if he dies I'm sure he'll polute the tank. I'll ask my wife to keep an eye on him, that won't go over too well. How will she know if he's definately a gonner or just about there?
I posted a help msg. on another forum and was told that maxima clams are exremely difficult to keep and not many people have any luck with them. I didn't get that impression from reading Sprung's book.
Thanks again James for your concern.
R Lutman
His exhalent siphon is gaping to the point where I can see his insides. Yes, he has been trying to move while on the bottom, but I don't know if he was looking for more light or a darker spot or maybe there was a current he didn't like. I have already moved him up closer to the light, he certainly wasn't going to do any better where he was. I seriously doubt he can recover looking at his condition now. My real worry is due to the fact that I have to leave town for a few days and if he dies I'm sure he'll polute the tank. I'll ask my wife to keep an eye on him, that won't go over too well. How will she know if he's definately a gonner or just about there?
I posted a help msg. on another forum and was told that maxima clams are exremely difficult to keep and not many people have any luck with them. I didn't get that impression from reading Sprung's book.
Thanks again James for your concern.
R Lutman
The best way to tell if the clam's a goner is that he'll go inside the shell and start detaching. At that point, decomposition would have set in and if he were lifted out of the water, the smell would tell you. Also, if you've got lots of clean-up critters (bristleworms, hermits, nassarius snails) they'll be all around the clam like vultures if he's dying. They will only do that if the tissue is starting to decompose (which it can do before he's totally gone). If it looks like the cleanup crew is moving in, then that's probably the end. Let your wife know the things to look for so if he takes a turn for the worse, she'll know and can remove him.
I wouldn't give up hope yet. If he isn't bleaching out and has maintained his color, he may still make it. If he was moving around but keeping his mantle pointed up toward the light (as opposed to turning sideways away from the light) then he was looking for more light. All you can do is watch and hope for the best at this point. DO make sure that he can't fall down from wherever you placed him.
Also, did you happen to check his byssus while you were handling him? If his byssus opening was an "empty hole" then his problem may be a damaged byssus and if that's the case, his chances of recovery are slim. Otherwise, it's probably just a lighting and acclimation issue. I wouldn't handle him at this point to look at the byssus if you didn't look at it before. Just keep an eye on him (and have your wife do the same) and hope for the best.
I wouldn't give up hope yet. If he isn't bleaching out and has maintained his color, he may still make it. If he was moving around but keeping his mantle pointed up toward the light (as opposed to turning sideways away from the light) then he was looking for more light. All you can do is watch and hope for the best at this point. DO make sure that he can't fall down from wherever you placed him.
Also, did you happen to check his byssus while you were handling him? If his byssus opening was an "empty hole" then his problem may be a damaged byssus and if that's the case, his chances of recovery are slim. Otherwise, it's probably just a lighting and acclimation issue. I wouldn't handle him at this point to look at the byssus if you didn't look at it before. Just keep an eye on him (and have your wife do the same) and hope for the best.
If a Maxima clam has good mantle extension along with a fairly wide intake siphon, I am not sure it is gapping. Typically, a gapping clam will have a wide open shell with little mantle extension and a flaccid looking intake siphon opening and as JDeets mentioned, the meat will start to detach from the shell. Below is a pic of a very healthy Maxima that shows the look of a typical intake siphon. You will notice that you can see it's insides as well, so seeing its gills through the opening is not necessarily a sign of a problem.
Clams are not the same as corals when it comes to acclimating them. Clams can modify how much light they get by the amount of mantle extension, and they can also expel their zooxanthellae to adjust to excess light. If in doubt, I would personally error on the side of too much light rather than too little at this point. 175W MH isn't going to fry a Maxima clam even if you place it up high. These bulbs are actually on the low side for Maxima in an 18-20" deep tank if they are placed on the bottom. If you had 400W bulbs, I'd be a little more cautious.
If, in your absence the clam doesn't make it, I wouldn't worry to much about it polluting your tank if it doesn't get removed. There really isn't much meat in one of those things and the critters in the tank will clean up any bits & pieces. Usually, by the time a clam shows signs of distress, it is already a goner no matter what you do.
--- Ken
Clams are not the same as corals when it comes to acclimating them. Clams can modify how much light they get by the amount of mantle extension, and they can also expel their zooxanthellae to adjust to excess light. If in doubt, I would personally error on the side of too much light rather than too little at this point. 175W MH isn't going to fry a Maxima clam even if you place it up high. These bulbs are actually on the low side for Maxima in an 18-20" deep tank if they are placed on the bottom. If you had 400W bulbs, I'd be a little more cautious.
If, in your absence the clam doesn't make it, I wouldn't worry to much about it polluting your tank if it doesn't get removed. There really isn't much meat in one of those things and the critters in the tank will clean up any bits & pieces. Usually, by the time a clam shows signs of distress, it is already a goner no matter what you do.
--- Ken
Gapping clams do not extenned their mantel outside of the shell. If the mantel of your clams extended way outside of the shell then he is OK even if you can see his inside though the inhalent siphon.
If he really extended his mantel very well, he needs more light. Your light is in no way too much for Maxima or Crocea. In fact, you should place them in the upper 1/2 of your tank.
Good luck
If he really extended his mantel very well, he needs more light. Your light is in no way too much for Maxima or Crocea. In fact, you should place them in the upper 1/2 of your tank.
Good luck
He's much worse today, shows definate signs of "gaping". I looked in one of my books and he looks just like the picture of "gaping". I was wrong, he's a maxima not a crocea. I've only had him 12 days. I can't get him any further away from the light, he's on the bottom . Is it possible that he needs more light? I was afraid to put him up close to the top or even half way. I have metal halides, I was afraid it would be too bright for him. I guess I might as well try and move him to the top, he's only getting worse where he is. I'm afraid I may be too late. Please respond and give me your thoughts.
Thanks
Thanks
Your tank is the same depth as mine--24". I have a 180 with 3x175W MH 10Ks, so our lighting is the same. One question is where he came from and what lighting he was under before. If he was under very strong lighting, then he might not be getting enough light on the bottom. I wouldn't move him all the way to the top immediately, as that could shock him.
In Knop's book, he describes the algae system of clams. The algae in clams is not intracellular, but there is a separate system for it, kind of like our lymph system. The clam can actually adjust the amount of algae in its algae system based on the amount of available lighting. If he'd been kept under very intense light, then he would've reduced the amount of algae in his tissues. In your case, it sounds like the clam isn't getting enough light. Therefore, the gaping mantle. Also, over the past few days, the clam has probably also been increasing the amount of symbiotic algae in its system. If he is placed under too much light too fast, he could die of oxygen poisoning because of the increase in the amount of algae. So you don't want to move him all the way up all at once.
I'd suggest moving him up no more than halfway int he tank, then leave him alone for at least a week so he can adjust. Make sure he's propped up good on the rocks and not "perched" precariously in a position from which he would be able to fall down. Be patient with him as the worst thing for him will be moving him around too much.
Another question I didn't ask is whether he has been moving around any. Clams will move to find the best light. When I put my maxima in, he was on the left side of the tank on the bottom and he started moving toward the center of the tank. He was looking for more light, so I moved him to the right side of the tank (where the lighting is more intense, due to the arrangement of the LR) and he has settled in and isn't moving around much any more. If your clam has been moving, he's definitely looking for more light. (If he's been turning over on his side, on the other hand, that might be an indication that he's under too much light, but that wouldn't be consistent with the gaping mantle issue.)
I don't think the gaping mantle is irreversible nor do I think that this clam is a lost cause. I'd just move him up a bit and keep an eye on him. The fact that he still retracts quickly when a shadow crosses over him is a good sign that he's still relatively healthy.
It would be nice to see a pic of your clam. However, a few questions to make sure that we're on the same page. The excurrent siphon should look kind of like a little "volcano" in shape. Is that what it looks like? The incurrent siphon should be a little "slit" and you really shouldn't be able to look into it and get a good view of the clam's internal organs. If it's shaped more like an almond, and you can see his insides, then that is a gaping incurrent siphon. If it's more of a slit and you really can't see inside, then that is normal.
Finally, as I mentioned in my prior post, if you're going to be keeping clams, I highly recommend the Knop book. It's not very thick and reading and understanding the systems of clams and how they work will be invaluable to you. The book's not cheap, but less than the cost of a clam.
In Knop's book, he describes the algae system of clams. The algae in clams is not intracellular, but there is a separate system for it, kind of like our lymph system. The clam can actually adjust the amount of algae in its algae system based on the amount of available lighting. If he'd been kept under very intense light, then he would've reduced the amount of algae in his tissues. In your case, it sounds like the clam isn't getting enough light. Therefore, the gaping mantle. Also, over the past few days, the clam has probably also been increasing the amount of symbiotic algae in its system. If he is placed under too much light too fast, he could die of oxygen poisoning because of the increase in the amount of algae. So you don't want to move him all the way up all at once.
I'd suggest moving him up no more than halfway int he tank, then leave him alone for at least a week so he can adjust. Make sure he's propped up good on the rocks and not "perched" precariously in a position from which he would be able to fall down. Be patient with him as the worst thing for him will be moving him around too much.
Another question I didn't ask is whether he has been moving around any. Clams will move to find the best light. When I put my maxima in, he was on the left side of the tank on the bottom and he started moving toward the center of the tank. He was looking for more light, so I moved him to the right side of the tank (where the lighting is more intense, due to the arrangement of the LR) and he has settled in and isn't moving around much any more. If your clam has been moving, he's definitely looking for more light. (If he's been turning over on his side, on the other hand, that might be an indication that he's under too much light, but that wouldn't be consistent with the gaping mantle issue.)
I don't think the gaping mantle is irreversible nor do I think that this clam is a lost cause. I'd just move him up a bit and keep an eye on him. The fact that he still retracts quickly when a shadow crosses over him is a good sign that he's still relatively healthy.
It would be nice to see a pic of your clam. However, a few questions to make sure that we're on the same page. The excurrent siphon should look kind of like a little "volcano" in shape. Is that what it looks like? The incurrent siphon should be a little "slit" and you really shouldn't be able to look into it and get a good view of the clam's internal organs. If it's shaped more like an almond, and you can see his insides, then that is a gaping incurrent siphon. If it's more of a slit and you really can't see inside, then that is normal.
Finally, as I mentioned in my prior post, if you're going to be keeping clams, I highly recommend the Knop book. It's not very thick and reading and understanding the systems of clams and how they work will be invaluable to you. The book's not cheap, but less than the cost of a clam.
jdeets and KenH:
I just returned from my trip and he's a gonner. You were right Ken, there really isn't much inside of one of these things, my wife left him in the tank because she said the hermit crabs looked like they were really having a feast. At my expense, this clam cost me $119 plus $45 shipping. I feel bad for any creature that dies in my care. I hope it was nothing I did. I would really like to try another, but I'm gun shy now. BTW, I measured just how far he was below the lights and it was exactly 26". I also called the place I mailed ordered him from and they said their clams are kept under metal halide. I wonder if I should have placed him at the very top to begin with. The guy at the place I bought him from said he was just stressed out. How do you unstress a clam after shipment? Thanks for your help guys.
I just returned from my trip and he's a gonner. You were right Ken, there really isn't much inside of one of these things, my wife left him in the tank because she said the hermit crabs looked like they were really having a feast. At my expense, this clam cost me $119 plus $45 shipping. I feel bad for any creature that dies in my care. I hope it was nothing I did. I would really like to try another, but I'm gun shy now. BTW, I measured just how far he was below the lights and it was exactly 26". I also called the place I mailed ordered him from and they said their clams are kept under metal halide. I wonder if I should have placed him at the very top to begin with. The guy at the place I bought him from said he was just stressed out. How do you unstress a clam after shipment? Thanks for your help guys.
Sorry to hear of your loss. I have never bought a clam MO. At this point, I only have one clam. I bought this clam from a fellow reefer in Dallas who orders livestock at wholesale. He stocks them in his tanks and I buy them from him after they've been in his tanks under MH for a month or two. So far, so good with this one. It's a 2" T. max.
The tank is an Oceanic 180. So it's 24" deep. The DSB is about 4-5" deep. So he would have been about 20" below the water surface. I have a 12" canopy, and the bulbs are probably about 3-4" below the top. So maybe 28" from the bulbs.
I did move the clam up onto a rock a couple of days ago because he seemed to be doing well and I thought I'd move him up halfway for a little more light. He still seems happy...
Also, KenH, get Daniel Knop's book on clams if you haven't already. The T. max pic you posted has some classic symptoms of underlighting. Namely, overextended mantle, gaping incurrent siphon, central bleaching and some local bleaching as well. These are all discussed in detail in Knop's book. This is not meant to be a flame, just do it for the clam's sake.
I did move the clam up onto a rock a couple of days ago because he seemed to be doing well and I thought I'd move him up halfway for a little more light. He still seems happy...
Also, KenH, get Daniel Knop's book on clams if you haven't already. The T. max pic you posted has some classic symptoms of underlighting. Namely, overextended mantle, gaping incurrent siphon, central bleaching and some local bleaching as well. These are all discussed in detail in Knop's book. This is not meant to be a flame, just do it for the clam's sake.
Dag nabbit, people, READ READ READ! For now I'll do your research for you:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
This is a quote from an article written by Daniel Knop and it can be found HERE.
The gaping incurrent siphon are one of the most visible signs of a weak specimen. The same article mentions the discoloration and local bleaching, both of which are visible in the clam pictured on this thread. PLEASE do your research before keeping these beautiful animals...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
This is a quote from an article written by Daniel Knop and it can be found HERE.
The gaping incurrent siphon are one of the most visible signs of a weak specimen. The same article mentions the discoloration and local bleaching, both of which are visible in the clam pictured on this thread. PLEASE do your research before keeping these beautiful animals...
Clamfoot,
Sorry to hear about the loss of your clam. Croceas tend to be the most delicate of clams. If you are looking for color, a T. maxima would be a better bet as they tend to be more robust. If you want the best chance for success with a clam in general, a T.derasa would be a good choice, although they can get pretty big.
By the way, that picture is of a Maxima that I have had for 5 years. It is not showing classic signs of being underlit as it is kept under 400W MH lights in a 24" deep tank. As far as the light areas of the mantle go, this is a result of an overall coloration change that this clam undertook when I went to higher kelvin lighting a couple of years ago. Yes, clams can change color with changes in lighting color temperature. I keep many clams including spawing derasas, squamosa, croceas and maximas. I also have links to many of Knop's articles on my website that you may find useful.
...Or you can listen to someone who has kept a one 2" clam and read a book.
-- Ken
Sorry to hear about the loss of your clam. Croceas tend to be the most delicate of clams. If you are looking for color, a T. maxima would be a better bet as they tend to be more robust. If you want the best chance for success with a clam in general, a T.derasa would be a good choice, although they can get pretty big.
By the way, that picture is of a Maxima that I have had for 5 years. It is not showing classic signs of being underlit as it is kept under 400W MH lights in a 24" deep tank. As far as the light areas of the mantle go, this is a result of an overall coloration change that this clam undertook when I went to higher kelvin lighting a couple of years ago. Yes, clams can change color with changes in lighting color temperature. I keep many clams including spawing derasas, squamosa, croceas and maximas. I also have links to many of Knop's articles on my website that you may find useful.
...Or you can listen to someone who has kept a one 2" clam and read a book.
-- Ken
- Location
- Virginia
Hey Ken, I haven't read any of the books, and my clams all look like yours. I have lost 2 over the past several months due to the fact that they became overgrown with xenia and I waited too long to do anything about it as I didn't see them and kept on forgetting to prune back the xenia (they were completely engulfed and strangled from the light). My intake siphons are all pretty much open, and I can see the water going in with tiny particles of food in it. Their mantles are all extended past the shell approximately 1 centimeter (I have from a 2" clam at smallest to a 4-5" clam at largest), and I only have them under PC lighting. They are all firmly attached to the rock where I have placed them, and with the exception of one that I cut off the rock because it got tipped when I was aquascaping and he was starting to meander off the edge, they have not moved except to improve their angle to the lighting. All of them have put on extra shell since I introduced them, and are growing at a pretty constant rate (as far as I can tell).
I do have a question, though. I can tell the difference between derasas and squamosas and maximas, but I for the life of me don't know the difference between a crocea and a maxima, and was under the impression that the clams I have are all croceas (could they be maximas?). If anyone out there can help me out with an easy way to tell the difference between croceas and maximas, that would be great. I also have pictures of my clams on my website, so check that out if you can help me out with an identification of them.
I do have a question, though. I can tell the difference between derasas and squamosas and maximas, but I for the life of me don't know the difference between a crocea and a maxima, and was under the impression that the clams I have are all croceas (could they be maximas?). If anyone out there can help me out with an easy way to tell the difference between croceas and maximas, that would be great. I also have pictures of my clams on my website, so check that out if you can help me out with an identification of them.
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