Gripes: Marine Scene in NOVA / DC / MD

[914]

Warning: This post is most certainly a disgruntled rant, composed by a spurned customer who is so pissed off he can barely see.


Here's the deal... first a little background: i'm a Reservist, from CT. Mobilized in the wake of Sept 11 and all that, i work in the DC area. Before this i was a student at UConn. We work from 7am to 6pm, though often it goes a bit later. Generally, we'll get one day every other week off. this isn't a gripe about my work schedule, as though the pay is lousy the work is meaningful, important and satisfying. The point is, my time (like everyone's) is quite valuable to me.

Since i'm going to be here for a while, i'd like to start a tank. To that end i've been designing, scheming and planning, hoping to get everything right where i made mistakes before.


i decided i want to use the Kent flex-tubing for some returns, and the math indicated that 3/4" would be a good size. Having looked online, but wanting it right away, i found some at the Marine Scene, via the phone.

This place is open only until 7pm on weekdays, and till 5 or 6 on weekends. Granted, payroll overhead will kill a small business of this type, and my real beef isn't so much about their hours...

Anyhow, i leave work early enough to make it over there yesterday, in spite of DC's infamously terrible traffic. I get the three Kent pipes, cool.

Once home i realize they're too big.. they'd really dominate the tank, so i decide to return them today.

Laving work early again, i head out... getting a bit concerned that i'll get there in time, i call them at about 20 of 7. Talked to Scott, who was cool and assured me that i was going the right way and was close. Cool.

So, i get there at 7:01. Exactly. My cell phone sets it's time off the network, so i'm pretty sure...

Of course the place is locked. It's 7:01 after all. So, i figure i'll just call them, explain the situation (i want to swap the 3/4 pieces i have for 1/2, they were in the same box and were priced the same), someone will unlock the door, or come there and make a clandestine handoff, and i'll be on my way.

Well, you've probably guessed by now that this isn't what happened.

Apparently, they won't answer the phone at 7:01. Nor at 7:04, 7:10 etc..

i peek in the windows, and see some people moving around, great! i knock on the windows a bit, but i guess the windows are one-way, since although they spent a little time looking at me as i jumped and waved wildly, neither of the folks in there reacted.

Hmm. Maybe they couldn't hear me (LFS are generally noisy), and the tinting was too dark.

So, i hung around some more (more phone calls...) until one guy came close enough to the door, and i banged hard.

He opens the door to tell me that they're closed (no sh*t!), and i tell him my story. He's not interested, doesn't understand and wishes to hear no more, essentially slamming the door.

Now, gentle people... i am VERY pissed off.

It's been over an hour since this happened, and though my heart rate is relatively normal, i'm still on quite a ripper over this.

Why don't they answer the phone? How about the customer who just spent several hundred dollars on animals, and has a question when he gets home? Does Marine Scene actively avoid talking to it's customers? How could speaking to someone who has spent, and will likely again money on one's store be a bad idea?

Did it not occur to Scott that someone calling at 20 of, worried about making it in time, might be coming over to (gasp!) spend some money in his store? Granted, i did not want to spend money, merely exchange parts (and when Mr Nice at the door told me "sorry, the register is closed" i told him so, alas to no avail), but i surely would have spent money there in the future. The store is nice, and the animals beautiful (though perhaps overpriced.. they are asking $300 for the 2x96W PC CSL lights i got from Champion for $175), i have to admit.

But as it stands, i'll be taking a day of leave to go to The Reef Tank (who's hours are even worse, unfortunately) to buy my LR, and eventually corals. For the Kent flex pipe i want, i'll just order it, as i probably should have in the first place. Silly me for imagining that patronizing an LFS would be faster and more convenient, price be damned.

So... as i see it, my three options are:

1) cancel the charge on my card and send the parts back to them via registered mail
2) drive out there again to get my money back
3) keep the parts and eat the cost


all the way home, #1 seemed like the right thing, but now i'm thinking that #3 will be it, since i'm sure as hell never driving out there again. It's pretty certain that i'll have a project to use the parts eventually, and frankly the money is not important to me.

What's important to me is a good relationship with those that i trade with, and Marine Scene (or perhaps one employee) has failed utterly in it's customer service.

 

[Bucktronix]

 

[Scottis24]

Dude, that blows.

 

[olgakurt]

I won't get into your situation because sounds like there's points to both sides, BUT IME the Reef Tank has been sooo much better than Marine Scene.

Last time I went in Marine Scene, before I moved to MD and more than a year now, there were no prices posted on any live items. I asked about a price (was in jeans) but didn't buy the item as I was running other errands. I went back the next day after work (in a suit) the price managed to more than double. ???? Could have been the help didn't know the prices, but seemed like they were sizing me up on what I'd pay. Hence no more business from me.

Although the Reef tank has different hours (afternoon), I thought they were opened later than Marine Scene.

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: olgakurt ]</p>
_________________
BMW K75

 

[pez]

914,

I feel your pain. I have heard similar stories to yours. I have never had the misfortune of crossing paths with them. I know Tom (the owner) pretty well. I know Scott, but not nearly as well. I'm sure whoever you talked to was not "in charge" by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not trying to defend them in any way, but I do think you should reconsider your position about the store. They are most certainly one of the best stores around in terms of livestock quality. Yes, their prices really do suck, especially compared to The Reef Tank, but they generally have things in stock, unlike TRT. If you think TRT will be your savor, think again. You really should call before you trot over there. Chances are, they will not have what you want. Especially dry goods (this INCLUDES salt). They carry very few things in the store. Even their corals and fish are hit or miss. There for a while, they literally had 2-3 corals in the entire store. Not a good way to attract customers.

In any case, I hope things work out for you. I'm sure if you call Scott or Tom, they will be glad to help you out (or at least they should be).

If you are looking for local reefers, check www.wamas.org.

p.s.,

I have no affiliation with either store and I do spend money at both. A good local store is essential, IMHO.

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: pez ]</p>

 

[kevreh]

914-

I feel for you and know how frustrating that can be. It really does seem rude. I've noticed that stores (of all kinds) have a wide range of limits on what a "close" time means. If I'm in a situation like yours I always let them know I may not make it till 5 minutes after closing to make sure someone will be there. It seems to help in not getting the "locked" door.

On another note speaking of the Reef Tank... does anyone else think their stock has gone down and their tanks are in not-to-good condition? Last time I was in there I saw a number of dead fish.

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: kevreh ]</p>

 

[pcragg]

Try them again. My Marine Scene experience was great. Great quality, without the typical LFS, sell me anything, attitude. Once, I bought SPS frags there for $10 each!

 

[the marine scene]

As the negative message was directed at us - The Marine Scene - I feel compelled to reply.

We regret the incident as it occurred. I do appreciate the persons honesty. It actually concludes the real issue here.

Do we have a right to have and maintain business hours and policies.

This person would have our hours be ambigous and undefined ultimately creating havoc and disorganization and likely the cause of many resultant problems.

The fact that he was on his way and came a long way does not excuse him from asking "what time we close" - a side note here - our phone system tells our hours to every person that calls. (I regret that the person answering the phone did not notice the time - we get numerous calls throughout the day and are far from perfect)

The fact that we don't answer the phone after we close is I believe, normal business practices.
Hence answering systems.

Furthermore the implication that we should open the door and let him in after business hours is again, I believe not typical.

Go over to Circuit City or the dentist or Home Depot or Gap or ???? and see if they let you in.

Or is it the assumption that we as a small business are struggling and subject to exception?

An interesting point you might like is - looking thru our door at 7:01 or 7:05 or what have you, it is dark. Consider that Herndon and the immediate area is subject to and has experienced robberies, would we not be opening ourselves up to some liability? Our insurance does regular security audits, they say for our protection, but we know it is to minimize their liability and it has been made clear that burglaries are statistically likely at end of business - less witnesses and that they - the insurance company frowns on us exposing ourselves to such risk.

Hopefully this provides some insight into our ways and means.

Tom White


Had we known this guy, or had he said when he called "what time do you close" and or "hey guys, I am in a jam, on my way, and just want to exchange these things", we would have accomodated him.

Finally the issue of time. He said it was 7:01. We close based on a clock on the PC, the same clock we use to open and close the store for some time now. If it is not correct or more appropriately the same as his or your clock, then I guess there is nothing that can be done, not now or ever.

We close at 7:00. We don't answer the phone before 12 on weekdays nor after 7. That is our policy that is derived from many factors and we stick to it if for nothing more than consistency.

If we start altering and making ambigous such things as closing time, etc.. it is likely that we will have any employees willing to stick around and it is certainly to piss off a lot of people.

We have to stick to procedure and I regret that it upset this person.

 

[Mike02]

I arrived at the Marine Scene once at about 12:10pm on a Sunday to find it locked. Assuming the PC clock is slow (as they usually are), it might have been 11:55am on the PC clock. If it were 7:01pm on the Sprint network, then it would be 6:49pm on the PC clock and therefore the store should be open.
A long time ago when i lived in Texas, there was this town called "Selma" north of San Antonio along i-35. It was widely known that they wrote speeding tickets if you exceeded the posted limit (55 mph) by only 1 mph. It was a small town that needed income. However, one day they wrote up a state congressman that then made it law to have Selma's jurisdiction moved off the hiway. I doubt if the town still exists.

 

[Anonymous]

I understand both sides of this issue. I think the store should try to make it right. For 20 bucks you could fed ex the guy the parts he needs and let him ship back the other parts. That is the kind of service that would make me want to shop at that store.

RR

 

[914]

Wow! such a lot of responses... let me address some of them.

olgakurt:
When i was actually in there, their tanks did look quite good, and the animals were nice (i paid more attention to the corals than the fish). There were prices posted over (most of? all?) the tanks, usually listing something like $40 for anything in this tank. That's certainly the simplest way to do it, and probably it means that there are real deals on some of the better specimens, while the lesser examples might be a bit more than they would be were they priced individually.
Some of the dry goods prices are pretty high, as compared to other LFS and certainly to mailorder. That's pretty much par for the course with a place that spends a lot of their time/money/effort on their tanks.

pez:
Thanks for the invite, i actually joined WAMAS at the most recent meeting. There were some interesting discussions there, and i was glad to be able to attend.
Of course you're right about giving them (anyone, really) another shot, and by the time i'm ready for livestock i'll certainly take a look over there. Last night i was *really* ripped, which while touched off by my interaction (more on that later) with whomever answered the door, i was not in a really pleasant state of mind anyhow.. traffic really bothers me, when i'm late. That's not their fault of course.

kevreh:
Thanks... yeah, i failed to mention that i was on my way over, though that would seem to be obvious. At the time, traffic was flowing nicely, then... VA 7100. As i've said, noone's fault.

pcragg:
yes, i noted some nice looking frags in there, quite reasonably priced, to my mind. But, i'm an admitted duffer when i comes to gauging the worth of those sorts of thing.

Mike02:
i've heard of that town (or similar legend).... My issue isn't so much the on-the-nose timing, as the interaction when someone finally DID open the door. Again, more on that in a minute...

Righty:
That's an interesting idea! Though, i'm happy with the way things stand now. I'll be out of town for a few days, and so anything i order tonight will be here when i get back, making the parts irrelevant. In fact, i'm just as happy to keep them. In then end though, this whole thing will have had some benefit, as dialogue is nearly always good. If everyone comes away from it at least not-mad, then that's cool by me.

Tom / Marine Scene:
Please try not to take this too harshly, but i'm going to examine and reply to your post. The point isn't to set any records straight, or to expose some kind of LFS 'evil axis' (sorry, couldn't resist..), but rather to let you and everyone else who's around and cares to read just how this came to pass, and how i feel about it.

so.. without further delay....

>As the negative message was directed at us - The
>Marine Scene - I feel compelled to reply.
That's good! i was hoping someone would point you at this thread, and this forum. Several other LFS (local fish store, if you're not familiar with the jargon) participate here, to everyone's benefit.


>We regret the incident as it occurred. I do
>appreciate the persons honesty. It actually
>concludes the real issue here.
Thanks! It's nice to know that you find me honest. And, we could say then that the facts, as stated, are not in dispute.

>Do we have a right to have and maintain business
>hours and policies.
Of course you do! You have the right to do almost anything you like. That might or might not win you customer loyalty, depending on your policies.


>This person would have our hours be ambigous and
>undefined ultimately creating havoc and
>disorganization and likely the cause of many
>resultant problems.
Well, that's not what i said. Though in any small retail operation hours *are* somewhat ambigious, i was not suggesting that you remove your posted hours. My issue was and is more with the interaction i had with the person who *did* open your door, about 20 minutes after your posted closing time.


>The fact that he was on his way and came a long
>way does not excuse him from asking "what time we >close" - a side note here - our phone system
>tells our hours to every person that calls. (I
>regret that the person answering the phone did
>not notice the time - we get numerous calls
>throughout the day and are far from perfect)
As i've said several times, i was fully aware that you close up at 7, though i didn't know it was such a super hard and fast rule. That's particularly so since i was actually in there until about 7:30 on Wed evening. You had some other customers who were indecisive about their purchase, and you helped them out. I hung around and looked at the tanks until the other customers were getting ready to leave, which was cool. When i talked to Scott i didn't ask that the place be held open (perhaps i should have, but at the time it seemed i was having luck on the road), but again... that's not the point.


>The fact that we don't answer the phone after we
>close is I believe, normal business practices.
>Hence answering systems.
Not really.... in fact, most businesses that i know of and/or have worked in will answer phones when they're not open, particularly if the caller is persistant. I wondered if perhaps your ringers go off exactly at 7, since i called several times in a row. Most folks would take that as a sign that someone would really like to speak to you, and that someone probably has good reason to believe that you can hear your phone. You simply couldn't be bothered to talk to someone, a customer, who obviously wanted to talk to you.

>Furthermore the implication that we should open
>the door and let him in after business hours is
>again, I believe not typical.
Yes and no... i've actually worked in LFS several times (admittedly, not reef stores, and a long time ago). In fact, i've worked several small, customer-contact intensive retail operations, and almost without exception we (as a matter of policy) were happy to talk to any customer anytime we were in or near the store. Of course you can't spend all night with the guy who wants to debate the correctness of his pH test with you, there's a limit. But two or three minutes doesn't seem unreasonable, particularly when you figure that each buying customer will spend several hundred (perhaps more) dollars with you. People who aren't buying generally don't need 'extra service.' With your location, i doubt you get a whole lot of "just looking" folks anyhow, your place is a destination. People go there to buy things or to plan to buy things. Anyone banging on your door wants to give you money.

>Go over to Circuit City or the dentist or Home
>Depot or Gap or ???? and see if they let you in.
You're right! But, that's an apples and oranges comparison. Home Depot is an operation on a totally different scale than yours, and besides, many of them are open 24 hours. The dentist comparison is even less valid.

>Or is it the assumption that we as a small >business are struggling and subject to exception?
I hope you're not struggling! Good LFS with strong livestock and consciencous practices are rare and precious! You are (as previously highlighted) however in a business in which your customer relations are critical. That night, your interaction with a customer not only stunk, it was outright rude. I hope you can see my thrust here.. i'd really love to see your store succeed and prosper, and it's certain that my business alone won't make a big difference. What *will* (in my inexpert opinon) make a difference is how you interact as a whole with your customers. Setting a tone of consistent helpfulness, 'going the extra mile' and all that, could go a long way towards building solid and postive relationships. Taking the opposite approach won't generally damage your relations with other customers, unless the interaction is publicized. The web is a wonderful thing, it's allowed all of us here to learn *so* much more than we could have on our own, and these kinds of forums can really help you cement your reputation. One way or another.


>An interesting point you might like is - looking
>thru our door at 7:01 or 7:05 or what have you,
>it is dark. Consider that Herndon and the
>immediate area is subject to and has experienced
>robberies, would we not be opening ourselves up
>to some liability? Our insurance does regular
>security audits, they say for our protection, but
>we know it is to minimize their liability and it
>has been made clear that burglaries are
>statistically likely at end of business - less
>witnesses and that they - the insurance company
>frowns on us exposing ourselves to such risk.
This is sophistry. It's an after-the-fact justification that had nothing at all to do with the events that evening. The fact is, your employee DID open the door, and if i'd been there to rob you, i could have. Actually, if i'd been there to take your end-of-day reciepts, i would have been there at 5 of 7. Here's where i'll get into the meat of my complaint. You (your employee, same thing) opened the door. That's cool. Then, he ignored me. Wouldn't listen or understand what was being said. Shooed me away like an annoyance, an interruption to his super-important business of dragging the garbage bags around. Then, he shut the door. This is what pissed me off. If you/he had ignored me and never opened the door, i would have been pissed off too, but in a more general way ("damn straight-laced, uptight, retentive policies"). This way, not only was there an overall pissed-because-you're-strict, but there was fairly personal affront, and a clear demonstration of his total lack of regard for customers.

The security angle is just a spin-doctoring attempt, and i don't buy it. I doubt anyone else will either.

If you're truly concerned about security in that neighborhood, you should obviously keep the door shut. And, considering the amount of light you throw around inside the store, a simple LOA 9266 65w PC floodlight would probably make you feel a lot safer.

>Had we known this guy, or had he said when he
>called "what time do you close" and or "hey guys,
>I am in a jam, on my way, and just want to
> exchange these things", we would have
>accomodated him.

This is very, very true. I didn't mention to Scott that i was late. When we spoke, i wasn't, really. But.. as mentioned above, this was more about my interaction at the door than the fact that it was shut.


All in all, i like your store. It's a nice place, and as large or larger than any of the reef-oriented places in CT. The tanks are beautiful, and the livestock looks quite healthy. I've read good things about the advice from your staff, and i like the fact that you're willing to participate in a public forum such as this.

For now i'll be ordering dry goods and plumbing parts off the web, but when the time comes for livestock i'll take a day off and come over.

Everyone: thanks for reading my long-winded posts!

 

[Bucktronix]

dude obviously you feel slighted and nothing this guy says to you is going to help. chalk it up to experance and move on.

 

[olgakurt]

Unfortunately, I haven't been in the Reef Tank in about 6 months-nothing in the tank in a long time, and we moved to MD in Oct. Sorry to hear things sound like they're going down hill there.
_________________
Mercedes Benz CL Class

 

[Gatortailale1]

Hey 914,

Both sides have their fair arguments but I think you took the wrong approach. YOU SHOULD NEVER GO PUBLIC before you give a place a chance to correct a wrong. Had they blown you off once you got a chance to deal with them during normal business hours in your effort to corrct the wrong, then I would say fine, make you post. But to blow up and throw around statements about their reputation without giving them a chance to correct something is just plain rude and stupid. But this is just my opinion.

I would say more but what's the point of doing that.

 

[the marine scene]

Thank you to 914 for being realistic. While he may disagree with our policy(s) regarding various activities, I appreciate his candidness.

Nothing is perfect when people are involved. Sorry to whomever about the Sunday noon business. I am going to the office supply and by a big frigging clock and will set it to GMT plus or minus whatever and settle that business.

Still not going to solve human error, but at least we as an organization will be aware of time issues.

As far as the light outside, my landlord would not allow it. He is funny in consistency, etc..

As far as the rude employee, I agree that may have happened. I did not here the conversation and thus must believe 914, I will deal with him today.

In this business, we don't get a lot of willing applicants for cost reasons and thus have to make do. Now that is not a disclaimer as I feel our employees are excellent in most aspects.
This one, this night just wasn't very nice. My apologies.

Regardless, we still will close promptly at 7:00 according to the most correct or believed accurate time and we still may overlook the time when someone calls resulting in the failure to tell the caller we close at a certain time. We would put the responsibility on the caller to inquire or listen to our phone greeting that allows the caller to hear our hours before we are even prompted to answer the phone. After hours our phones are set to an auto-attendant which serves to notify the caller and take any appropriate message.

Regarding our prices, we have a huge level of expense here, that creates our "markup". Comparing us to mail order is not apples to apples. We have the products here, we are paying higher rent, our electric bill is outrageous, our costs of water changes, insurance, phone bills etc. contribute to the pricing structure. Furthermore our livestock sales is less than 1/2 of our business which will not support a mail order level of pricing.

I want to stay in business, so that people can come to our facility, see the products, talk face to face with a knowleageble sales person about products that we actually use.

We appreciate those that recognize these realities and support us in our overall efforts.

We have to sell some light fixtures to pay for clean tanks and we have to sell some carbon and salt and other dry goods that are visibly more expensive than mail order. Oh, we can lower our prices and have a ****ty looking store. I, personally, can't do that. Furthermore I know how a business operates and I have cranked many a number and the result is what we have. I tend to think we are doing an excellent job overall and if a whoops occurs here and there, well I am truly regretful and am generally willing to solve any realistic issue that occurs.

Thank you all for your support throughout the years.

Tom White

 

[pez]

Wow

! go away for a day and look what happens. It sounds like everyone is on the same page here.

As for the prices, I will say this: Good LFSs are worth their weight in gold. I _choose_ to spend a little more for salt, corals, and fish; I do this so I will have a LFS worth going to. I could go to Roozen's and get the same fish for 50% less. Then it would die and I would have to get another one. At which point we are back to square one, with more harm done to the environment than I care to mention. Look folks, you get what you pay for. It's simple. Cheap fish are *generally* mistreated and poorly handled. Don't get me wrong, I am one for bargains, but there is a limit that the smarter consumer recognizes after some time within the hobby.

 

[SohalTang]

DC Area Reef Stores suck. One is dirty, one has nothing, the other is expensive. It's boring to spend weekend driving around only to see bread and butter corals for 40 bucks.

 

[PontiacGuy]

To the irrate Connecticut reservist:

It is entirely inappropriate to take a single experience and use it against a whole company. You arrived after closing, correct? Therefore, you have no reason to be angry. Had this happened during buisiness hours, then you would have some basis for making those remarks. Yes, perhaps the gentleman on the phone should have warned you that "Yes, we close in 20 minutes." Apparently you have never worked in any sort of retail establishment. If you had, then you would have known that after the registers are cleared out, that making a transaction, even a single one, could cause the staff to have to stay an extra half hour or more. I'm sure the person at the door ment no harm, but was just stating the facts. Buisness hours are put in place for a reason. If I need parrot food or kitty litter, I'm not going to ask Petco to stay open past their closing time so I can pick up my merchandise. I have been a Marine Scene patron for several years, now, and Tom, Scott and the staff have never let me down. After going into the store over the weekend, I discovered a clock mounted where it can be seen from the front windows. Wise move Marine Scene. That will prevent there from being any speculation as to what time it actually is. If the clock in the store says 7:01 and the store is closed, then it is 7:01 and the store is closed, dispite what your Sprint phone says. And the whole lower price online deal, the way I see it, paying the extra $50 is worth it in the long run. When I need a Metal Halide replacement or 10 extra pounds of rock, I like to see what I'm getting, as opposed to Flying Fish Express shipping me whatever box of rock that has been languishing in their warehouse for a week. The staff will always be there for me if I have a problem with the equipment. No calling 800 numbers and being put on hold for 25 minutes. The Marine Scene staff is great and enjoyable to deal with. I suggest to you, that next time you enter a similar stiuation that you not let your evidently hot temper get in the way of your thinking process. I will continue to bring my family and friends to the store and look forward to many more years of fishkeeping. Maybe someday you will see the light.