Clam not extending

[MandarinFish]

I have a Crocea that is shelled up and not extending.

I just got it and it's not out like it should be.

The guy I got it from have MH lights on it, I have natural sunlight and floursecent lights for the night.

It's not getting direct sunlight, as it's got a rock between it and the sun.

Croceas are supposed to be able to tolerate water differences, PH, nitrates, etc. Does this sound like a light problem to you?

Also, the clam is brownish which seems like it hasn't gotten a lot of light in the past.

 

[fish esq.]

Can you provide a little more info about your tank, such as parameters, your lighting, photoperiod, etc.

If you just got the clam, this may be normal, as it make take a day or two or three for the clam to adjust to the new environment.

Also, clarify you comment that it's not getting direct sunlight.

 

[Sue Truett]

Tridacna crocea clams are the most light needy of the giant clam species. If the color is brown it may be from lighting are it might be that it isn't one of the more colorful crocea's. They are also the hardest clam to keep. I think you definitely need to get some intense lighting of some kind on this clam. If it isn't extending it's mantle then I doubt it is going to be able to acclimate to your system. How big a clam is this?? If it isn't extending it isn't happy and this only makes for a problem in which the clam isn't going to do good. HTH...

my 180 ecosystem sps tank:
http://berlinmethod.com/suet/
my 120 ecosystem sps/clam tank:
http://suetruett.homestead.com/home.html
www.marshreef.org/members

 

[MandarinFish]

Maybe he's not that brown under actinic lighting, but I don't know how accurate a gauge that is.

If he needed more light, he would be out all over the place, right?

I can put him in full sunlight and keep the flourescent on him, although croceas are from near the surface and eat up the red/yellow spectrum.

I know they love light, but I don't want to burn him if he's not ready for it.

Why would he recede? He was out when I first got him, they are supposed to be tolerant of water changes, don't need their water totally sterile, and it doesn't seem like he's got too little light.

I'm puzzled.

 

[Henry1]

I've experienced an instance where I did not acclimatise a crocea gradually to the new tank condition. The thing stayed closed for a few days. Suspicious and running out of patience, I tried switching its location.
When I lift it out of the water, I did a habitual sniff check and sure enough, it smelled bad. It didn't recover and the rest was history.

You may want to give your clam a sniff to check out its health.

cheers

 

[toptank]

Who ever told you that T. Crocea tolerate any kind of water is not correct.

I quote from Daniel Knop,author of "Giant Clams" told me that,
"This species easily gets clogged gills, which will be lethal. They like clear and clean water."

As far as him being brownish doesn't mean that he hasn't gotten enough light, to the contracy. It could mean several things such as generalized bleaching, shows a reduction of the symbiotic algae.

I have seen clams where they were under 250s then the new owner placed it directly under 400 watt MH without acclimating to the new lights.

Also I agree with Sue T. that this species required more light then other Tridacna do but you have to do it correctly.

Hope this help.

Barry

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: toptank ]

[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: toptank ]</p>

 

[MandarinFish]

My clam is not dead and not fully in it's shell.

It retracts when a shadow falls across it, then gradually extends itself again. It comes about halfway out compared to pics of healthy clams I've seen that are all over the place.

My PH is fine, so is my calcium. There is ample light, I believe, and if there wasn't wouldn't the clam overextend itself?

Is the clam simply defending itself against all the fish I have?

Help please. This animal is alive and I really want to keep it that way...

 

[fish esq.]

I'll repeat my request for more information. Can you please describe your set-up and the lighting you have (how much and what kind). Also, please advise on where the clam is located. This is not meant to be the Spanish Inquisition, but this information is pertinent to assessing your situation.

 

[Sue Truett]

What kind of fish do you have in the tank with this clam?? Are they taking nips out of it?? Bothering it or overly checking it out?? All this can stress the clam out and cause it to not open or extend it's mantle fully. If a clam isn't getting enough light I don't know why it would over extend. That I've never heard of. I agree with Fish Esq, too many questions and we can't help if we don't have some more info, but like Totank said and is usually known the T. crocea is not a hardy clam per se. Derasa, squamosa etc. are hardy clams not the crocea. I have, with every clam I have gotten had the clam open immediately after acclimating them.

my 180 ecosystem sps tank:
http://berlinmethod.com/suet/
my 120 ecosystem sps/clam tank:
http://suetruett.homestead.com/home.html
www.marshreef.org/members

 

[MandarinFish]

I've got a sailfin tang, yellow tang, clownfish pair, cleaner wrasse pair, CORAL BEAUTY and Australian Harelquin Tusk.

I haven't seen any mess with the clam, but the tusk and coral beauty might when I'm not around.

The salinity is a little high and I am fixing hit. The PH is nearly 8.0 during the daytime.

I don't have a protein skimmer, but my nitrates were okay last time I tested. I need to test all again.

I put the clam where he will get the most sunlight. It is overcast here now, but I know they love red and yellow spectrum.

Will he open up to how much sunlight he can absorb? Will he be able to tell how much he can handle and allow that much in?

In other words, can he help himself at least if I provide enough light?

 

[davelin315]

Not to be obnoxious, but are you kidding? By natural sunlight, I'm assuming you mean filtered through a window, which is nowhere near sufficient. Not only that, but it's also filtered through the wall of your aquarium. Also, like others have already said, croceas are the most difficult to keep. The fact that it is not fully extending its mantle is a sign of deteriorating health. It needs excellent water conditions and intense lighting! Also, almost to 8 during the day is way too low! Your pH should be around 8.3/8.4 all the time, not at 8.0. As a result of your low pH, your other levels will probably be off as well, such as alkalinity. You need to check your system and probably add some buffer. Also, you need to return the clam to where you got it, unless you have it in some kind of lagoon where natural sunlight will reach it easily (doubtful if you live in the Bay Area due to the weather conditions).

 

[MandarinFish]

With all due respect Dave, are you kidding?

With the Western sunlight I get in my big, wide open windows with my tank about a foot from away from outside direct sun, does a 400 watt metal halide remotely compare?

I just don't think it does. Clean, untinted, thin glass doesn't reduce the volume or intensity of the light the sun is blanketing my tank in. You don't understand, I can place this clam in hours of direct sunlight daily. I've been slow to because I fear it may be too intense coming from a MH lit system.

Even if it's occasionally overcast.

I've been using Kent buffer and B-Ionic for alkalinity, but will raise the PH further.
I also am ready, should the clam not improve, to take it into a shop for credit.

I still ask whether the clam can adjust itself to the volume of direct sunlight it can receive in my aquarium?

 

[samurai9]

MandarinFish I live in Los Altos as you probably can see and the weather hasn't really been all that sunny....I doubt it compares to under halide lighting.
Also if you have sunlight coming in through a side window, fromt the west, doesn't that mean the clam is going to get light only in the later part of the day? Maybe if you live in Florida you can try natural sunlight but in North Cal it really isn't sun central.
With all due respect, I suggest you give the clam to someone who has proper lighting to care for it.

 

[MandarinFish]

Ok, I will supplement the natural sunlight with my 1000 watt MH.

Oh yeah, I've got light.

The tank gets a lot of indirect sun during the early day, then gets pretty flooded by the latter half. True, it's been rainy off-and-on this week. But when the sun comes through, it's full on. I've been more worried about too much light than too little.

But I will change PH and lighting, which should hopefully improve the clam. If not, I will take him to the LFS.

I'm still curious if a clam can adjust itself if presented with too much light. This clam has not come out as much during direct sunlight as at night.

 

[Carpentersreef]

Mandarin,
I would definitely suggest getting your crocea into direct sunlight. They originally come from shallow waters, and putting it back into it's natural setting would be a good thing. As far as it acclimating to more intense lighting, it sounds like you're doing a good job of observing it's overall health anyways, so do it and keep observing.
Do you have any reference books that you are using? I'm looking at v. 1 of Sprung and Delbeeks right now, and it tells me that crocea's NEED intense lighting.
I really don't think that clams can get too much light in a typical reef set-up.
I've got a crocea and derasa under 250 w hqi. Both have constant new growth rings.

Mitch

 

[MandarinFish]

1) direct sunlight (already in that spot... moved him there today)

2) set up 1000 watt MH light, keep red/yellowish spectrum plant grow bulb on it

3) I read that little clams (this guy is maybe 3") should be taken out periodically and put in a container with a lot of DT's to feed them a ton (although I have fish obviously, and food particles floating around)

I already have buckets of B-Ionic and Kent's trace/calcium in there. The clam is now where
A) the fish don't really go
B) sunlight floods in

Yesterday he wouldn't come out of his shell at all. Looking dead. Last night, when the fish slept, he extended the whole way out again!

He's healthy! It's the fish that spook him, even if they're just passing by.

I had read clams shouldn't be overlit when first introduced. Now he has adjusted; time for light.

Other ideas? DT's sound good?

[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: MandarinFish ]</p>

 

[davelin315]

Again, I don't think that natural sunlight filtered through a window is any comparison to using MHs or even PC or VHO lighting. Think about it like this, you don't get a tan from sitting next to a lit window, you get it by being in the sunlight itself. Any amount of glass can change the impact of light on your tank. Also, like I said before, it's being doubly distorted, it first passes through the window, then through your aquarium. My guess (and I'm definitely not an expert) is that the light that makes it through is insufficient to support a reef tank environment based on at most 6 hours of light per day. That's not to say that your tank does not get some benefit from being in the sunlight, after all, houseplants derive enough energy through filtered sunlight to grow, but a reef tank is a very different animal.

 

[imow]

Isnt direct sunlight all relevant to location?? For example, the sun in Fiji, is different from the sun in California, which is why I get sun burned my first day in the Carribean (in October none the less) after working outside all summer in CT. It has to do with the angle--blah, blah. I think you are kidding yourself thinking Ca. sun is fine for your reef tank.

[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: imow ]</p>

 

[morepunkthanewe]

sounds like you 1000 "MH" bulb is really a high pressure sodium growlight bulb. While quite bright, it is nearly devoid of the blue spectrum essential for corals and clams. Being that it is 1000 watts however, it may indeed provide some benefit.
As for the window, I think the sunlight should be beneficial, but I would add some PCs or a single MH bulb to supplement it so it gets 10-12 hours of light a day which I doubt your window can provide. I guess the real test would be to ask what other corals you have in your tank and how well they are surviving in this light. If you have nice SPS growing with that light, then you should be fine. IF you only have some leathers or mushrooms, I wouldn't be convinced.
I think that most of the people that have responded are speaking from speculation and probably haven't tried that same set up that you have. You know your system the best. Sure everyone has heard that glass filters UV, but people just tend to regurgitate that info as if they had experience to make such statements. It may filter UV, but some of the other spectrum is probably useable. Many greenhouses are made of glass, and those plants grow extremely well. SO if you are going to supplement anything, I'd supplement with actinics to supply the higher energy light (UV, violet).
The other thing I would wonder about with your tank being so close to a window is the temperature. I could forsee that your tank could swing in temperature 5-7 degrees easily between night and day. You shoudl check the temp early in the morning and in the late afternoon. Reef animals don't do well with wide daily temperature swings.
Its only my two cents, I salute you for going out on a limb and trying new lighting techniques, we need more of that sort of experimentation in this hobby so we can progress. PLease keep us informed on your progress, but if you are in doubt of your animals health, get it back to a stable system and see what happens.

 

[MandarinFish]

The crocea is looking much better now that he is closer to the light and the sun is hitting him directly a couple hours a day.

I have a red-yellow MH (not HPS; I hear ya, but I know the difference)plant grow bulb in my 1000watt and a 15,000 Kelvin reef bulb (brand new) for my 1000watt also.

He is doing much better.

He only pulls back when fish block his light, then he retreats.

He looks much better these days and the website that said clams hyperextend when light-starved is full of it.

I do have one concren - on one end, his flesh does not extend to the bottom of the shell. Like he "ripped" himself open.

This concerns me, although he seems to be functioning fine. Any thoughts or experience on this?

Also, which bulb should I use for now (it's still a little overcast in Oakland)? The red-yellow bulb, or the 15k bulb?

[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: MandarinFish ]</p>