manderine???

[Stephen P]

I was thinking of getting a manderine and wanted to get some real oppinions as to if this set up would work...

The main tank is a 30 gallon with 1/3 the volume taken by live rock. 4 inch sand bed. The tank has been going for 1 1/2 years and has a good pod population. Occupants: Coral beauty, bi-color blennie, 3 strip damsel, cleaner shrimp, coral banded shrimp, green brittle star and various corals.

In line with the main tank there is a 10 gallon sump with a protien skimmer. Followed by a gravity feed 10 gallon refugerium with live rock, 4 inch sand bed and capulara.

So the big question...before I buy, do you think this set up will support a manderine?

Thanks for your responces...
Stephen

 

[jamesw]

From the results of our survey, and others, the "pod" population in a 30g tank will not be self-sustaining, as the mandarin will wipe it out in the first week or two. I don't think a refugium of the size you mentioned would help in this case either.

Tanks 100g or larger seem like they can have a self-sustaining pod population AND a mandarin.

So, I would reconsider getting a mandarin at this point.

HTH
James Wiseman

 

[scavdog]

I agree with James. I made the mistake of getting a mandarin early on in the hobby. I lost him due to lack of pods not to mention the coral banded who took stabs at him now and again. Now I have a 100 gallon with 180 LBS of rock and a 50 gallon refugium. I got another spotted mandarin type goby only after I noticed TONS of pods in the tank.
I know there are people on this board who claim to keep mandarins that readily accept frozen food, but they are in the minority IMO.
Its tough not to pick one up considering how cool looking they are but they are better suited for larger tanks.
-Just my 2 cents-

[ August 14, 2001: Message edited by: ScavDog ]

 

[monkeyboy]

Anyone have a link to that survey or others?

 

[davelin315]

I had 3 mandarins in a 55 reef before for several years until I moved it and they died. There was a male and female purple mandarin and then a psychedelic mandarin. I probably had over half of my tank taken up by rock, and they did fine without me ever adding anything as far as food for them. I didn't have a skimmer at the time, and I didn't have a refugium (still don't, but am going to add one). They did fine, but I do understand that I was pretty lucky. My tank seemed to support a huge amount of planktonic creatures and copepods and amphipods (had longspine urchins which bred in my tank, 4 babies made it to adulthood).

 

[GotKalk]

I have 4 Mandarins, including a breeding pair and I would advise against your getting one. 30 gallons and a 10 gallon refugium are not going to be enough to keep the pods going. Mandarins eat ALL day, it's about all they do other than sleep

Rick

 

[Grandczar]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

30 gallons and a 10 gallon refugium are not going to be enough to keep the pods going

Im curious if it possible to keep one in a 30gal. Giving you had a large enough refugium? If so what size refugium would be sufficent? i.e. lets say u had a ridiculously large refugium like... 125gal

What would provide more pods:
125gal main w/ 30gal fuge.
or
30gal main w/ 125gal fuge?
To me the one with the larger fuge is the clear winner no?

Just curious....

 

[jamesw]

Look at a full grown mandarin's stomach. I'd estimate that for that stomach to go from "emaciated" to "full" the mandarin would have to eat about 5-7 grams wet weight of food.

That is every day.

5-7 grams of copepods is A LOT.

Since a refugium is only as good as what comes out of it (it can have all the life in the world, but if none drips into the tank...) it needs to supply at the very least this 5-7 grams of pods per day to a reeftank.

I don't think I know of ANY refugium that supplies 5-7 grams of pods per day. Therefore the main tank needs to have a good replicating population of pods.

Hope that answers your question.

See www.reefs.org/survey for more info.

James

 

[Anonymous]

jamesw: 5-7 grams of copepods is a lot. I believe the weight of the entire Mandarin fish is about that weight. Considering that 1 gram is the weight of a cubic centimeter of water, (salt water is a few percent more) and a Mandarin fish seldom gets more than about 6 or 7 centimeters long in captivity (2-3 inches for the Americans). The head of the fish is about a square centimeter, so the weight of the entire fish is likely about 5-7 grams. If their stomach is half of their body (which I doubt), it would take a darn big fish to eat 5-7 grams of copepods.

I agree, however, that 30 gallons is not enough since the copepods need to be reproducing at a high enough rate to replace everything the Mandarin fish eats. Even 1 gram of copepods likely is a population of close to 1000.

 

[Blue_Mosquito]

I guess I am an odd ball, with one in a 25 gal. I've had my Mandarin for close to 5 months now. He is very healthy, and has accepted frozen brine soaked in Kent Zoe... that lodge on the live rock, substrate, and in algae patches. He does eat all day long, or tries to, and I still have a very healthy pod population.

Perhaps the fact I used coral rubble, and crushed coral for a substrate has an effect. I have some but not alot of aragonite sand in my tank. I'm just thinking after reading the "Pod Paradise" post that most of my tank sounds like the pod breeding paradise that is described there.

From what I have read on here though... I do feel lucky.

Perhaps other than luck somewhere I have done something to help a good pod population with my choice of substrate?

 

[Stephen P]

Thanks to everyone for your responces. I was hoping that I would be able to get away with it, but from the sounds of it, it wont be a good idea.

The other thing is that I have to learn how to spell mandarin correctly

Does anyone have any ideas as to what other fish can go in my tank...I was thinking along the lines for a couple of Catalena gobies. Any other sugestions?

Stephen

 

[jamesw]

Hmm...interesting choice.

Catalina gobies come from southern california, where the water temp NEVER gets above 70f. So, if you get one and keep it at reef aquaria temperatures, it will be overstressed and eventually die.

I would suggest a "red-headed" goby instead, they are cool (genus gobiasomas)

Hope that helps.
James