Help accessing if floor can support tank!

[plankton123]

How would you go about accessing if the second floor of your townhouse (over the garage) could support a 150-180 gallon tank? I have a 50 gallon tank now with 60 # of LR and 100 # of LS and have had no problems with sag or anything else for 4 years.

Thanks

Scott

 

[SPC]

Plankton, the first thing I would do is to see if I could talk with the architect or building contractor of your town house. You are going to need to know what direction the floor joists are running, in order to place your tank in the correct position. Does the garage have any columns in the center holding up the floor? If not then they might have used 2 x 10 or 12s for the joists. If this is the case then I would have no problem placing the tank on an outside wall with the tank running across the ends of the joists. The important things to consider here are what size joists were used and what centers they are on. Even if they are 2 X 8 joists on 16" centers I think you will be fine. I presume that there is a ceiling covering up this information and that is why I feel it is important to talk with the person responsible for building your town house.
Steve

 

[31-2c]

Or just go ahead and put that big tank up, and if it ends up as a hood ornament on your car, you know the floor couldn't support it.

(Just kidding of course)

 

[Gatortailale1]

Is your garage ceiling dry-walled? If not, can you see 2x10 floor support boards? Standard spacing is 16 inches appart. In my townhouse, I can see them and a steel I-beam and 2nd floor supports a 125gal with no problem.

 

[MattM]

There should be no problem supporting the tank regardless of your joist direction or column placement.

Let's say we're talking about a 180 gallon that weighs a ton (2000 lbs). That tank is 6' x 2', so the 2000 lbs is spread over 12 sq ft. That works out to 167 lbs per square foot. That's probably less than you put on the floor just by standing on it.

I may have the specific numbers slightly wrong, but I believe most floors are built for "40 lbs/sq ft live load". Now 40 lbs doesn't sound like a lot, but what that spec means is 40 lbs per square foot, over every square foot of the floor simultaneously with a deflection of no more than 1/360 of the span. In other words, if you have a 15 x 15 room, you can place 9,000 lbs on it and only get a flex of 1/2 inch.

The one thing you may want to check for is existing sag. Most floors tend to sag away from the wall, so if you place the tank against the wall you can get a noticable tilt unless you shim the front. And if you do shim the front, make sure the shims extend the entire length of the stand front and you place wedge-shaped shim on the sides. You want to keep the weight well-distributed.

 

[Anonymous]

hi,

you should be fine imo.

i have solved a similar problem installing a 1" plywood board under the tank/stand.
make sure the board is larger than the tank so that it will spread the weight evenly over a larger space..

good luck and dont over worry

Toine

 

[SPC]

Posted by Matt:
There should be no problem supporting the tank regardless of your joist direction or column placement.

Tom, I find your above statement to be very misleading. I replace sagging floors quite often and alot of this could have been avoided by correct column placement. I have also seen refrigerators cause a floor to sag when the floor was not built correctly, ie, too long a span for floor joists, to wide a distance between floor joists, rotted floor joist, termite eaten floor joist, ledger board braking loose, joist cut up by plumber to run his pipes. The numbers you have presented may be correct for the example you have used but do not necessarily reflect real life practices. Anytime you place a load such as this on a floor where you are not certain as to the condition of the floor, you are taking a gamble.
Steve

 

[MattM]

Steve -

The original poster was concerned about whether or not his floor would support a 180, and states that the same floor has had about 600 lbs worth of tank for 4 years with no sag. Short of inspecting the floor, I don't see a problem.

The examples you cite are all valid and should certainly be cause for concern if he has any of these circumstances. But assuming normal construction and condition, it's not something that warrants a lot of worry.

We deal everyday with people who think that their floor will collapse if they put a tank on it. But how many times have you heard about a floor failure due to an aquarium or a water bed? In most cases, people just don't undersdtand the loading when the weight is properly distributed. That all I was trying to point out.

BTW, this is Matt, not Tom.

 

[SPC]

I got ya Matt. I will say that I have a 100 and a 180 in my house and although I am not concerned with them falling through the floor I have noticed a difference. The 100 gallon is on an inside wall running with the floor joist. When I walk past the tank I can see, and hear it move. It is not enough movement to cause a failure (I hope

) but it is noticeable. My 180 is against an outside wall, also runs with the floor joists, but has an extra scabbed on joist that I added. This tank doesn't shake at all when I approach it and I feel alot better about the long term integrity of this tank.
Steve

 

[D-Nak]

Good question to ask! I live in a townhouse in the East Bay and I'm planning to set-up a 120 gallon reef on the second floor. Here are some things I can add:

1. I spoke to an engineer friend (helped with the expansion on the San Mateo bridge) and told him about my plans to set up the tank. He told me that if I placed the tank near a load-bearing wall (the ones that hold up the roof) I shouldn't have any problems since these walls are designed to carry the extra weight of the roof. Better yet, he told me to place the tank in the corner of the room near 2 load bearing walls. He said the worst place to put it is in the center of the room, or away from any walls.

2. Getting plans for the townhouse complex that you live in can be a big hassle. I haven't tried yet, but I found out that I may need to contact the townhouse association to get the plans. And I wonder what the first question they will ask me will be... How about "and why do you need the plans?" And if I were to tell them that I planned to set up a large fish tank and wasn't sure if the floor would hold the weight -- I know I'd be the talk of the next home owners association meeting!

3. Have you seen the stands that Oceanic makes? If you have some time (and if they still have it) go to Aquarium Concepts in Hayward. I was there the other day and saw the stand -- the sides were made out of plywood -- like 3/4" all around and small corner braces and a few extra pieces above the front doors. Cameron (the guy who knows his stuff at AC) told me that in order for people to get the full warranty on Oceanic tanks -- we all know these are nice tanks -- you HAVE to buy the Oceanic stand. Long story short -- if 4 pieces of plywood can hold up a 120 gallon tank, I'm not that worried about the floor.

Let me know if you har of any news that CONVINCES you that there are no problems with setting up your tank on the second floor. If you feel like I do you'll agree with this -- no matter what anyone tells you or tells you what someone told them -- you're always going to worry about coming home one day and finding your tank on the floor below. Lucky for you, you don't have your master bedroom on the floor below where you plan to set up your tank!

D-Nak

 

[dukecola]

D-nak,

I can validate that.
Years ago, I had a custom stand made for my Oceanic 200g reef by DAS. It was simply a 3/4 inch plywood square with top and floor. It had a 4' opening in the back and 4 door openings in the front. No other support or braces inside. I was concerned until the stand builder explained the weight distribution princible. The stand held up no problem, not even a sign of distress or cracking.

 

[plankton123]

All,

Thank you very much for the information (all of it) and the right questions to ask the builder.
There are no center braces in the garage and the garage ceiling is covered with dry-wall so there is very little to see. Also, five years ago I pulled all the carpet and installed Pergo (spelling) with sound insulation. The floor had a rather nasty sag from end to middle but I did a bit of grinding and the sound insulation helped,
so the sag is not too bad now. Though, I may still have to move the tank a few inches from the wall to make sure the tank sits level on the floor.

Tbanks again and will try to ensure the tank sits across the joists.

Scott

 

[plankton123]

All,

Thank you very much for the information (all of it) and the right questions to ask the builder.
There are no center braces in the garage and the garage ceiling is covered with dry-wall so there is very little to see. Also, five years ago I pulled all the carpet and installed Pergo (spelling) with sound insulation. The floor had a rather nasty sag from end to middle but I did a bit of grinding and the sound insulation helped,
so the sag is not too bad now. Though, I may still have to move the tank a few inches from the wall to make sure the tank sits level on the floor.

Tbanks again and will try to ensure the tank sits across the joists.

Scott

 

[MattM]

Whoa! I just noticed your location.

It not uncommon for folks in your area to not only install extra joists, but also to strap the tank stand to the wall, and maybe even reinforce that wall.

Also, acrylic tanks are usually prefered over glass in earthquake prone areas.

 

[Rich-n-poor]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>There are no center braces in the garage and the garage ceiling is covered with dry-wall so there is very little to see. Also, five years ago I pulled all the carpet and installed Pergo (spelling) with sound insulation. The floor had a rather nasty sag from end to middle but I did a bit of grinding and the sound insulation helped,
so the sag is not too bad now. Though, I may still have <hr></blockquote>

I am with steve on this one (and I almost never agree with steve)

The floor having a noticeable sag would indicate to me that it is poorly constructed for the load it is currently carrying.

However, the pergo laminate flooring is an interlocking floor system that will help distribute the weight in the same way as the plywood previously mentioned.

the most important thing is too determine the direction of the floor joist on which the tank will rest. Ideally you want the floor joist perpendicular to the tank
----------------
tank ]
----------------
] ] ] ] ] ] <---floor joists

even if the ceiling is drywalled you can determin the direction by the joint compound covering the screws if it is not painted.

If it is painted an expierenced construction person can probably still pick out the joints in the wall boards. Or by using a stud finder.

If you tap along the drywall lightly with a hammer you will notice a difference in sound when you encounter a joist also

HTH

_________________
BMW New Six

 

[plankton123]

The sag from wall to center was there before the tank was installed and exends across the entire wall. Yea I know, I should have checked out these things when we went on the walk-through before we bought the house.

Anyway, it turns out there a a single massive support beam that runs along the front of the garage (where I have the tank parallel to it) that is a composit of about 12-2x6s. However, the rest of the joists run parallel to the main support beam and I can't tell how big they are. So, I guess the best insurance would be to install a new tank perpendicular to the main support beam to take advantage of as many joists as possible. I guess that means my new tank will be a room divider!

Rich-n-poor:

Before I installed the Pergo there already was a 3/4" floor installed, so we're talking about a Pergo subfloor on top of sound board on top of a 3/4" main floor. So, that should take care of distributing much of the weight across the whole 25' square floor.

PS Can't put tank on the load bearing side walls because: 1) there is already a 500 pound piano on one side and the other side is the dinette set.