Looking for large external pump suggestion

[M.E.Milz]

I am in the planning process for a new tank (~400g). Originally, I was going to re-use my existing sump and 2 WMD40RXLT Iwaki return pumps, and then add a MD100RLT pump. The 40's were to be connected to a series of returns along the back of the tank (sort of like spray-bars). The 100 was going to be connected to a pair of SeaSwirls by way of a closed loop.

It now looks like I am going go with a new and larger sump. That means I no longer have to use a separate closed loop, or the existing 40's.

Would a second MD100RLT pump be a better alternative to the 40's? In other words, I should I go with a 2x MD100's vs. 1x MD100 and 2x WMD40's?

I have also seen a lot of positive comments about the Ampmaster 3000. Would a pair of these be a better alternative to the Iwaki pumps? The spec's suggest that they draw less amps than the Iwaki pumps do. How do they compare noise wise?

Thanks in advance, Mike.

 

[Jeff Hood]

I have not used the Iwaki pump but I can tell you the Ampmaster is VERY quiet. How much back pressure will you have? The ampmaster is a low RPM pump and the flow is decreased by the size of your outputs. However it still can handle up to a 17 foot head pressure. I can tell you it puts out a lot of flow and Would work great. I had my pump running for two days testing it recently and I could not hear it over my massive overflows. Even when I first turn it on and no water is flowing over the returns I had to check to see if it was running. Noise is not a factor IMO.

Also one amp draw vrs. a 3.5 amp draw is a no contest. If flow is a problem you could run 2 pumps and still use less electricity if you are worried about power.

I Will run 4 on my 580.

 

[liquid]

Also take a look at the Sequence pumps. I know a couple reefers that have these and they're very happy with them. I believe they've had an advertisement or two in the fish magazines...

Shane
liquid on #reefs

 

[500 G]

The Iwaki 100 is loud. 2 would be discouraging. Here is what I am using on my 500. 1 old Iwaki 30 for a sump return and a Dolphin Ampmaster in a closed loop. That is it. The downfall to a large sump is large water flow, it makes alot of noise. I try to have the same amount of water going through my sump as I do through my skimmer. That is all I use the sump for is to feed the skimmer. If you can have the large flow go through the sump quietly then go with 2 Ampmasters. 1 closed loop and 1 for a return and keep the Iwakis for a back up.

 

[M.E.Milz]

Thanks 500G. I was originally planning on keeping the SeaSwirls and one of the pumps on a closed loop to reduce the waterflow through the sump. Perhaps I should go back to this set-up. I could use one Ampmaster for my returns from the sump, and one for the closed loop.

I know the Ampmasters draw less amps, and apparently are quieter, but how do they handle back pressure? Although I won't be using these to drive a skimmer, one of them will still be connected to a pair of 3/4" SeaSwirls. I know that the SeaSwirls create a lot of head, so I want to make sure they the flow will not be cut down too much.

 

[Jeff Hood]

The 3/4th inch sea swirls will definatly affect your flow but I'm not sure how much exactly. I run an Ampmaster on my MYREEF skimmer with duel beckett valves. The input to the becketts are 3/4th inch unions and I have the output of the Ampmaster divided into two, one going to each beckett. The flow through them is absolutly amazing. I will measure the actual flow in a few days when my tank finaly gets full.

How much flow are you looking for? What kind of turnover do you want? How much head pressure are you going to have on top of the added backpressure of the 3/4th inch sea swirls? I have the Flow charts here for the ampmaster and they show the head loss for the 1.5 inch output and the 1 inch output. Two 3/4s should not be that much Worse than a single one inch output. Also, who sais you have to run all the output of that pump through the sea swirls. You could add returns to your tank to take advantage of the ampmasters flow if needed.

Jeff

 

[M.E.Milz]

Thanks for all the replies. Unfortunately, after talking to a number of manufacturers (Dolphin, Ocean Currents, SeaSwirl) and a few retailers and pump distributers, I am still confused as to the best arrangement. This is where I am so far.

Circulation system A:
2x 1.5" bulkhead drains in the tank (bottom of overflow) will be plumbed to my sump. 1x Ampmaster 3000 (or larger) pump will return the water from the sump and back to the tank via 8x 0.5" returns spaced along the rear wall of the tank at varying heights (ie, behind the rock work). Ampmaster sells a manifold that converts the 1.5" return line from the pump into 8x 0.75" lines. The 0.75" lines will be reduced to 0.5" just before entering the top of the tank (the splash gaurd along the rear edge of the tank is being drilled and fitted with 0.5" bulkheads every 6").

This system will have 6' of elevational head plus another 6' of head from frictional losses (assumption). The Ampmaster pumps about 1800 gph at 11' head (I need to double check this). Thus, I should end up with aroud 225 gph at each of the 8 returns. I may also go with Sequence pump for this system.

Circulation system B:
1x 1.5" bulkhead drain (also in the bottom of the overflow) will be connected directly to a second pump (ie, in a closed loop so as to by-pass the sump). This pump will then return the water back to the tank through either:
a) 2x 0.75" SeaSwirls, which can each handle 850 gph (the 1" models are too loud);
b) 3-4x Ocean Current Oscillators, which can each handle 500 gph; or
c) a motorized 3-way ball valve that will alternate the flow between return lines (straight plumbing) placed at each end of the tank.

Both a) and b) will require a large, high rpm pump becuase of the frictional losses of the oscilatting units. I don't think an Ampmaster 3000 will work because its flow is greatly reduce by back-pressure (as all low rpm pumps are). Thus, I would need a big, high rpm pump that will probably draw at least 4-5 amps. Another disadvantage is that the oscilators would probably need a lot of cleaning since they are being fed by intake connected directly to the tank. Between the 2, a) is probably a better choice because the SeaSwirls are designed for higher flow outputs.

c) is a good alterntive and more elegant solution than power heads on a wavemaker. But I have heard that motorized 3-way ball valves are fairly loud. The advantage is that I can use a much smaller pump (maybe my existing Iwaki 40RXLT) since the frictional losses will be much less.

Alternative Circulation system B:
Scrape the whole closed loop oscilator set-up and add 2-4 Gemini air-cooled powerheads (960 gph each) on a wavemaker. This would be the most enery efficient set-up, and the easiest to set up. The disadvantage is that the powerheads will be visible (although this might no be that bad since the top of the tank will be at 6').

Well, that is where I am at. I am open to any comments or suggestions on the above set-ups, as well as any other ideas.

Thanks for the help, Mike

[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: M.E.Milz ]</p>