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Smthnfishy

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I didn't change anything, temp stayed the same, I lost all my montiporas, including a 10 inch ound capricorins, all my different seriatiporas(birdsnests), and my lps's are all closed up. My acros and soft corals look great though. I can't figure that out. I've had reef tanks for 10 years now and this one is stumping me. Any suggestions or anyone with similar experience?
Thanks Erik
 

Smthnfishy

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The water Parameters are inline, Its been awhile since a water change but I don't think thats it, My acros are doing fine, Its just that other sps I have and lps are taking a ****. I'm going to do a large water change tonight, I hope they make it. I wonder what could have caused this? The fish are fine too.
I also notice the Birdsnest corals the skin is fluffing off the skeleton. So those are a for sure loss.
Erik
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SPC

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Eric, my suggestion would be to ask Eric Borneman on RC, he has the Coral Forum there.
Steve
 

THEFishHead

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Smthnfishy:
<STRONG>http://community.webshots.com/user/eriksmacks
Hers a pic of the destruction, part of it anyways
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</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dear Smthnfishy,

If you have seen tissue coming off the skeletons (especially in the Seriatopora) what you are witnessing is RTN. It can happen overnight, yes that fast.

The cause is bacteria. There need not be any stress factor involved. High temps encourage rapid spread, lower temps slow it down. I find that a treatment of 1 drop lugols per 15 gallons helps to slow it as well. It will pass as quickly as it came. If you are lucky some tissue will remain on the corals and they will recover.

Have a look in your sump. Are there piles of detritus in there. Sometimes RTN, especially in Seriatopora and Pocillopora is associated with disturbing a hydrogen sulfide pocket in the fine detritus piles in a sump. I have triggered RTN events by merely stirring such piles. It is a good idea to siphon out any such accumulations in the sump.

These events keep us humble! It is best to heve cuttings of your corals in more than one tank to prevent losing them altogether.

Hope you get it back under control.

Julian Sprung
 

KenH

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I had many of my SPS corals (Montipora, Millipora and Acro) in my last tank start to go south on me mysteriously after several years. Coloration went down, polyp extension decreased and some showed signs of die-off, mostly from the base up receding maybe 1/8" a day or so. My Birdnest and LPS seemed relatively unaffected.

I did massive water changes (20%-30% a day for a week) and everything started to recover. I happened to be in the process of setting up a new tank and since the transfer, everything has been fine again.

I never did figure out what was causing the problem in the tank, but I suspect that some of my soft corals such as my Sinularia, were starting to get too dominant and were starting to erode water quality. I did find a few bad spots on the sinularia, so that may also have caused it to release toxins.

I know that your problem is related only to your montiporas, but you might be having a simlar problem.


---- Ken
 

arnjer

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I have been reading on water quality and it seems the softies like nutrient rich water and the stonies like nice "clean" water how long since the last water change how are all the params?

Jerry
 

Wormy

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Hate to argue with Julian Sprung, but do we know that RTN is caused by bacteria? Everything I've seen lately points to some cause other than bacteria (such as an out of control immune response). If there is now hard evidence available for a bacterial cause for RTN, I'd love to see it (I'm serious here, not being sarcastic). Can you direct me to this data?

Thanks.
 

Smthnfishy

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Julian,
Thanks for the reply, I've never had a problem before with doing this put I do believe now this was the problem, the Turkey baster! I scraped the glass and blew things around with the baster the day before this happend. I think I found the answer I was looking for.
Thanks Everyone for your help,
Erik
 

davelin315

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Geez, I was going to post a reply, but I think that Julian Sprung knows just a tiny bit more than I do.
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However, my 1/2 peso (I won't pretend to have 2 cents) opinion is that your soft corals are releasing stuff, or what he ^ said.
 

JohnL

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jamesw:
<STRONG>I had one acropora that I had fragged into 2. The corals grew out from perhaps 100grams to 200. Once one of them started to peel, the other one, on the other side of the tank peeled also. Literally no other corals were affected.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I recently had a similar event where the frag was in another tank for a month and they both lost all their tissue on the same night.
 

jamesw

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It's really hard to say what initiates a tissue peel. One day everything can be fine, you don't add anything new to the tank, or anything at all, then the next, boom - you get a tissue peel.

I have had this happen before, where I had one acropora that I had fragged into 2. The corals grew out from perhaps 100grams to 200. Once one of them started to peel, the other one, on the other side of the tank peeled also. Literally no other corals were affected.

Cheers
James Wiseman
 

Eric Borneman

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We had a long discussion on tissue peeling at Reef Central and although I would love to retype all of it, I don't have the time. Let me hit the highlights.

RTN is an aquarium term. The signs of it are rapid tissue degeneration and/or tissue sloughing. Many things, including bleaching, bacteria, temperature, sedimentation, toxins, etc have all produced similar signs in corals.

This condition has been described in the wild, and it is called Shut-Down Reaction. There has been no proper histology done on wild corals with SDR. There is no known cause. The mode of infection, transmission, and overall etiology is completely unknown. It is contagious, but the descriptions of its contagion do not and in fact, cannot be bacterially mediated - the time frame makes it impossible. It is described as occurring in corals under chronic or acute stress, or with a prior history or current occurrence of White Band Disease.

It is described as "A complete spontaneous disintegration of the coral tissue…coenosaerc sloughs off in strands or blobs, leaving behind a completely denuded skeleton with not a trace of tissue left.” (Antonius 1995)

Esther Peters and I have looked samples of Acropora with "RTN" or SDR and found a coagulative necrosis with balls of tissue surrounding intact zooxanthellae. On the samples we looked at, there were no obvious pathogens present and the coral tissue immediately ahead of the necrosis looked generally healthy. I have other samples we will be looking at soon to see if the signs are consistent between and within species.

The big point here is the huge lack of information on this condition. There is no really valid work on this condition yet, and absolutley no good reason to suspect that bacteria are causative. They may play a role, they may be totally causative in some cases, totally uninvolved in others. It is just not known yet, but the one common yet vague thread seems to be stress.
 

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