Anyone heard of/used a trickle filter for reef tanks?

[dazjazz]

Thanks to those people who have responded to my cry for help in setting up a reef tank. I'm looking to set up a 3'x2'x2' tank or maybe go up to the four foot size.

The aquarium closest to me sells reef tanks with what they call their patented Trickle Filter. Basically they block off the back of the tank using a sheet of glass.. creating a kind of cavern area... In this area they put the skimmer, a bit of filter wool and a huge area of bio balls...they use a powerhead to pump the water in and out.

The bio balls supposedly provide biological filtration. They put live rock in the tank, coral sand and thats about it.

The guys at the aquarium tell me their system is THE BEST for keeping marines. Other aquariums tell me different.

It would seem to me that this trickle filter is based somewhat on the dutch system?

Can anyone shed some light? I have been warned (by others) that this system will be very bad for nitrate levels. Is this right?

 

[naesco]

Yes, you are right it adds nitrates.
The trickle filter is dated technology.
It is a waste of money. Invest in live rock and sand and a first class skimmer.

 

[KanUCme]

I still have my "trickle filter". I however have removed 98% of the bio balls. I only keep a few in the bottom to cut down on the waterfall effect. I was totally confused when I looked for filters in the begining, I didn't quite exactly know what a sump was, and why everyone said that trickle filters are bad. I don't know why they are considered a nitrate factory, because I thought that everything would find a balancing point. I think that if I had a fish only with no live rock I would probally use the bio balls. But I would reccomend that you take most if not all the bio balls out. I love my 98%bio ball free trickle filter. All it is in reality is a $200 acrylic sump...

 

[Scott D Passe]

Hi All,

Here is a rather long-winded post that I have used to discuss this issue.

It is possible to use wet/dry type filtration, in a reef system, but it is unnecessary to do so and there is a very high correlation between their use and protracted nuisance algae problems for many people.

"Using Bio-Balls (or any other wet/dry trickle media) is no longer considered best practice because of this method of filtration’s tendency to be a “nitrate” factory.

The problem with this approach is that:

1 Ammonia is converted to nitrite then to nitrate so quickly by the bacteria on the trickle filter that other processes don’t get a chance to “lock up” or remove this and other nutrients and keep it from becoming a nuisance algae fuel.

2 The bio-media, after some time in service, tends to become coated and clogged detritus.

3 Allowing detrivors (sand bed fauna) to process detritus instead of breaking it down by bacterial process means less end product, i.e. nitrate. Of course, nitrogen cycle bacterial process will still occur, but other processes should be encouraged as much as possible. Also producing nitrate in part of the system and pumping it about the tank and expecting your DSB (or other nitrate reducing/incorporating system) to process it before nuisance algae get a “crack at it is the issue.

Current practice is to use a combination of a DSB (Live deep fine sand bed), live rock, and an algae filter/refugium and/or a protein skimmer. This approach processes and/or removes detritus and nutrients with higher fauna and/or removes it from the system without it's rotting, suspended in a moving stream of water."

Regards,

Scott

[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: Scott D Passe ]</p>

 

[TimP]

Funky:
If you are talking about coburg Aquarium then i highly, HIGHLY sugest you go elsewhere, besides having the most outragest prices i have ever seen, they will give you nothing but bad advice.
I only think it is them becuase of the stated 'inbuilt trickle'.
They have outdated ideas and even more outdated prices.. O, and check their live rock tanks, full of nasty stuff like apstasia etc

 

[ZigZagZombie]

I also use a trickle with no bio-balls in it too. I just put a few pieces of live rock in it to cut down on the noise. It's funny how LPS give out wrong advise...

I am lucky to have one that knows what they are talking about...

 

[dukecola]

If the tank fits your needs and the price is a good deal, you can buy it and simply remove the bio media. This would give you a good sump area for other stuff.
The LR/LS is the current method. Using bio-media w/LR is an old practice but not necessarily a BAD way to keep a reef. All one has to do it add a cheap simple denitrator to eat up the nitrate caused by the "nitrate factory", re: bioballs. This has been replaced by the LS/LR method which has it's own upkeep problems too; seeding, feeding, replenishment, detrivores, sand stirrers, etc, but still an effective reep keeping method if done correctly.

 

[butt.doc]

I agree with Duke--using a trickle filter is not a BAD way to go, people used this method for years with excellent results, its just that there are seemingly better approaches these days (ie LR/LS) and in a few years we may all be doing things completely differently. If space is limited, then the tank you mention might be a reasonable alternative to having an external sump--if you remove the bio balls. Otherwise I would suggest sticking to the current standard setup of live rock, deep sand bed, built-in overflows leading to external sump, containing a high-quality skimmer.

The above mentioned false back would be an interesting idea for a built-in refugium...

-Steve

 

[ophiuroid]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ZigZagZombie:
<strong>It's funny how LPS give out wrong advise...

I am lucky to have one that knows what they are talking about...</strong><hr></blockquote>

It is not the wrong advice, it is a different methodology that worked very well for a long time and continues to do so for many, many people. For the majority of people who just want a 'simple' salt water fish tank, it may be the best way to keep them. The DSB/LR method requires attention to some detail, the willingness to fill the tank up with lots of rock (believe me, many don't want this), the willingness to use some sort of refugium often with export capacity (macroalgae), seeding, etc., and perhaps most importantly, close attention to stocking levels and overall balance of the system (not skimping on LR/LS or sand bed depth). Do you know how hard it is to talk people out of fish that might be killed by another one of their fish, let alone trying to explain filtration methods and stocking levels???? For the majority of people in the hobby, who do not read this board BTW, it is far better than what many are told- that you can keep it with an over the back filter or some other basic "freshwater" filter. Keep in mind that there are some people who would much rather deal with a nitrate 'problem' (by watching feeding and water changes). Some have had a tank crash due to the potential delay in dealing with a big ammonia spike. I believe both can be done, but I recommend the LR/DSB approach to people with the discipline to do it right- it requires patience and practice and a whole lot of questions.

 

[M.E.Milz]

I think the biggest problem with the tank you are considering is the difficulty in accessing the "filter" portion of the tank. Consequently, if you use the bio-material, sponges, etc. that are typically included with the filters, they will become clogged with detris and other crap, thereby resulting in the dreaded "nitrate factory". Nevertheless, the tank that you are considering can still be a very good design if you: 1) remove the sponges, and 2) remove the bio-balls and replace with live rock. In other words, you can convert the area behind the tank into a refugium (do some searches to learn more about these). The resulting set up could provide an excellent reef tank. And as others have suggested, don't forget the sandbed.