How many of you have self-proclaimed 'overstocked' tanks?

[Anonymous]

Just curious, because I'm pretty sure I have an overstocked tank : two perculas, two firefish, a banggai cardinal, an Atlantic blue tang, and 5 small gobies of an unknown (to me) origin in a 75 gallon.

Peace,

Chip

 

[Goldmoon]

Not sure if what I have read was right but it was said that if you add a fish and one dies it is because you had reached your maximum capacity, the system will always balance itself.. until then you are not overstocked. All systems are different according to how they are built. (Refugium, filtration, skimmers etc.) So logically there is no such thing as overstock if your fishes are all healthy.
Again, this is what I have read.. I am in no way an expert..
I still think my hubby overstocked his aquarium though

even though all fishes are thriving and very healthy.
He has a yellow tang, flame angel, springer dottyback, neon damsel, 2 three stripes damsels, a red scooter blenny and a mandarin fish in a 46 gallon tank.

 

[JennM]

Respectfully, Goldmoon, it does not make sense to me to continue to add fish until one dies...and one dead fish doesn't mean a tank is overstocked.

I am a BIG fan of UNDERSTOCKING. I'd rather have just a few fish, carefully chosen, carefully researched, and carefully cared for, than a whole pile fish.

Marillion, I don't think you are overstocked, except that Atlantic Blue will have to move someday, they get HUGE. Otherwise your fish are small and unlikely to outgrow their surroundings. If they are all healthy, nobody is fighting for territory and the environment is peaceful, then IMO you're fine....again, as long as that Atlantic Blue moves when his time comes.

Goldmoon: I see trouble in your tank's future, by virtue of several facts: Firstly the Yellow tan should be in a 75 g or larger, and it is a rather aggressive typically. If it's very small, it might be alright in the smaller tank for a while, but they grow...secondly, you have damsels. Cute fish, cheap for the most part, and if I had $1 for every customer who loved their lil damsels and then 6 months down the road cursed them and had to rip their tanks apart to rid themselves of them, I'd retire a wealthy reefkeeper

Sooner or later they will squabble and fight and have problems amongst themselves and others. Thirdly, the scooter and the mandarin will compete for food....both are unlikely to accept prepared foods, and I wouldn't keep a mandarin in anything less than a 100 g that was well matured, without any competition for the live amphipods and copepods that they eat. My dollar says the mandarin starves first, followed by the scooter shortly after that.

Your statement that overstock is not possible if all the fish are healthy is a misnomer. Sure, you can fit 10 people into a bachelor apartment, they will all fit, they will all have a place to lie down to sleep and they will SURVIVE...but will they THRIVE? Sooner or later one will get on another's nerves, squabbles will break out...it is ONLY a matter of time.

This is not meant to sound like a flame, but I wouldn't have recommended those choices for a 46, and I don't think I'd shop where they did advise those choices.

There are so many more appropriate fish for such a tank...small gobies like clown gobies, firefish, cardinals, pygmy or centropyge angels, 6-lined wrasse, the list goes on and on. These won't outgrow the tank, and generally they won't terrorize their neighbours either, if they aren't packed like sardines

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JennM:
<STRONG>Marillion, I don't think you are overstocked, except that Atlantic Blue will have to move someday, they get HUGE. Otherwise your fish are small and unlikely to outgrow their surroundings. If they are all healthy, nobody is fighting for territory and the environment is peaceful, then IMO you're fine....again, as long as that Atlantic Blue moves when his time comes.
</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I got the Atlantic Blue due to the immense amount of problem algae I had. It has since done a fantastic job ridding me of all of the problem algae, as well as all of my caulerpa.

I'll probably move it after another year or so...we'll see how aggressive he gets.

Thanks for the advice.

Peace,

Chip

 

[slimy]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

Not sure if what I have read was right but it was said that if you add a fish and one dies it is because you had reached your maximum capacity, the system will always balance itself.. until then you are not overstocked.

What you read was wrong.

Just to back JennM, and air a gripe of mine:
The "Maximum Capacity of a tank" does not mean the same as "fully stocked". Maximum capacity is basicly how much bioload the tank can handle and still keep the fish alive. You shouldn't be keeping anywhere *near* Max capacity in a tank. It's cruel. If your tank is so close to it's maximum bioload that the addition of an extra fish would cause one to die you've got at least twice as many fish as you should have. There's a big difference between overstocking and maxing-out a tank.

An example: Normally I'd keep 4 *small* fish in a 29 gallon. 5 or 6 would be overstocking. 12 would be max capacity. I would expect to see the latter only at an LFS.

Yeah, I'd be hard-pressed to see a mandrin surviving more than a few months in a tank that size, unless you're breeding food in a seperate tank. Even without the competition, I'd say he won't get enough to eat.

 

[chris_h]

My worst is my 29 gallon tall carabean tank. 2 hamlets, blackcap basslet, 2.5 inch blue angel.

 

[JennM]

Well, in my 55 I've got a Coral Beauty, pair of Tomato Clowns and a Pyjama Cardinal. The clowns live in a LT anemone (from another hobbyist) and I've got several show corals and a few frags and shrooms.

I've got Frogspawn, Cynarina, Tooth, Candy, Pipe Organ and Galaxia as well as several different leather frags I've had for about a year or so. I've got mega mushrooms all over and a few button polyps.

I've got 4 hermits and about 4 snails (except I think my turbos spawned because I have a zillion pea-sized snails that look a lot like turbos).

Jenn

 

[Goldmoon]

I understand what you all mean...I did not mean that for people to add fish until that would happen. Just that some people wonder why they lose their fish every time they put a new one in. How many times do we read that the fish died for no reason... parameters are good etc.. That just could be why according to the source I have read.
As for the damsels, any time we can get our hands on them they will go.. they are not fighting at all but the neon damsel IS NOT reef safe. It might not eat corals but it sure bites them.

The two 3-tripes seem like a mated pair..and they don't even look at the neon one and vice versa. As I was saying, there is NO fighting at all in the tank. NO FIGHTING. And no one is terrorising the others. And I would not say they are packed like sardines.

We now have our little scooter blenny for about almost 4 months and the mandarin for about 2 months. Pods population still looks good in the tank and the refugium just crawls with them. Besides our blenny eats flakes, and the mandarin loves black worms.
I don't want to seem like I am flaming either but places like ISPF and InlandAquatic sells pods to seed the tank. If we would ever notice our pod population would go down a little, we could still buy some seeding packages I guess..

[ October 08, 2001: Message edited by: Goldmoon ]

 

[danmhippo]

(post deleted by a coward.........)

[ October 09, 2001: Message edited by: danmhippo ]

 

[esmithiii]

Hows this for a planned stocking level for my 180 RR w/ 50 gal sump/refugium:

1 naso tang
1 yellow tang
1 hippo tang
6 green chromis
3 yellow damsels (not aggressive)
1 tomato clown
1 percula clown

Too much??

Ernie

 

[Goldmoon]

DanmHippo

Yes probably... I must add that you are a very courageous person to have post your *load* here.

I know why most people are keeping quiet on such a post...

 

[Anonymous]

I beleive in understocking for one simple rule. I should at any time be able to be away and have my largest fish die without crashing the tank. I have seen both in SW and FW people who push the stocking level lose almost every thing by the time they get home because their system could not handle one dead fish for several hours.

I think it is also very important to remember a lot of people who are not very experienced in aquaria read these posts and saying I have this tremendous amount of fish in my tank and I am doing great is unfair to those who come here looking for sound advice.

I think we need not discuss quality of life issues.

Just my $0.02

 

[JennM]

SeaHawk your points are taken. I've seen exceptions to the "rules" myself, and I actually kept a Mandarin about 14 years ago, in a FOWLR that had about 3 LBS of LR in it. The LR had been there about 2 years, there was about 2" of cc substrate, and without any predation before we got the Mandarin, the substrate was literally MOVING with pods, so the Mandarin was fat and happy.

It's an exception for the scooter to eat flake, and also an exception that a Mandarin will eat blackworms, so that hobbyist is LUCKY.

However, I cannot condone or advocate practices that aren't considered common sense because they *might* work for somebody. IMO it's not a gamble I'd be willing to take, risking additional lives, when common sense dictates that what I'd be doing was more of a risk.

Sure, it works for some people...but for every ONE that it works for, it fails for a dozen others. I guess I've seen too many emaciated dragonets, or fish picked on by incompatible tank mates (because the hobbyist wanted to "try" and went wherever they would blindly sell him what they wanted), or stressed fish because they just can't keep enough territory to feel "safe"...

As for squabbles in the tank just like in Nature, well fish can swim FAR FAR away from each other in the ocean, they only have about 48" to 72" in the average tank to go in a home aquarium. Again, I've seen too many tangs with holes punched in them from other tangs in the same tank. I recently removed a yellow tang from a 200 g, that was blinded by a tankmate. (The fish all had HLLE too, but that's another post).

Just because one *can* doesn't mean one *should*.

Jenn

 

[esmithiii]

No thoughts on my stocking plan?

 

[slimy]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by esmithiii:
<STRONG>No thoughts on my stocking plan?</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not a fan of mixing clown species in a tank, but with that kind of space, you shouldn't have a problem. Would you consider pairing up 2 of the same species instead? I think that makes them much more interesting.

Not sure about the tangs.

 

[esmithiii]

I may add a second ocellaris, but the tomatoe is already in there and I am emotionally committed to the ocelaris.

Ernie

 

[SeaHawk]

JennM,

As a general rule to setup a new tank I would agree with your statements about overstocking a tank and the typical fish to choose from. But the thing to take into consideration and the fact that I have seen overlooked so many times over and over is that every tank is different no matter what size it is and should be adjusted and balanced to fit their particular setup and conditions. No one can simply say that a tank is over or under populated without taking the time to see and evaluate the tank for a period of time in person. There are very good general rules to follow but with experience with the tank, all tanks are different.

As for the Red Scooter Blennie and the Mandarin fish not surviving in the tank, would you care to make a wager on that? I'll admit that no one should put these fish in a tank smaller than the size you specked out as another general rule. And I've seen alot of people fail with these fish because of a lack of experience with them and a smaller tank leaving less room for error. But I'll bet in this circumstance these fish are alive until they die a natural cause.

[ October 09, 2001: Message edited by: SeaHawk ]

 

[davelin315]

I am also overstocked, and have been criticized several times on this board before for it, but my tank is doing well, and the fish are all getting bigger and growing, and I have not had any problems with it (until this past week when I had a fish sitter, and I had a fatality, but I attribute that to the amount of romaine lettuce he stuck in my tank even though I told him to only feed a tiny pinch of flake every couple of days). Here's my list if I can remember everyone, I'll start from the bottom and work my way up: 1 dusky jawfish, 4 fire shrimp, 2 skunk cleaner shrimp, 1 banded coral shrimp, numerous hermit crabs, 2 yellow tangs, 4 (3 are new replacements for my recently deceased *sniffle*) pacific blue tangs/hepatus, 4 yellow tail damsels (they fight ALL THE TIME, but they do in nature as well, so I don't see the problem with it), 1 3 stripe damsel, 1 domino damsel, 1 cinammon clown, 1 flame angel, 1 coral beauty angel, 1 royal gramma, 1 green chromis reef fish, 1 firefish, 30-40 snails, a new doliatus rabbit fish, and that doesn't count any of the corals in my tank. I'm probably forgetting a fish or two, but you get the idea. Fatalities I have had recently include a linneatus tang which was a stupid fish to buy in the first place because of how finicky they are, a blenny that starved because there is almost no algae in my tank anymore due to all the various grazers, and my pacific blue that died during baby sitting (I blame the baby sitting). As far as overstocking a tank, I think that all of these in a 125 is overstocking, but they are all doing well, they all fight periodically, just as fish do in nature, and they are all doing well.

 

[canadawest]

Hmmm, interesting thread. I chose mostly small fish in my 100g tank, but do have a fairly well stocked tank. Here's my list.

2 - Ocellaris clowns
2 - Royal Grammas
2 - Bangaii Cardinals
1 - Yellow-Tailed Blue Damsel
1 - Mandarin Dragonette
1 - Blue "Hippo" Tang
1 - Yellow Tang
6 - Green Chromis

I don't keep any competing species, and feel that having the pairs contributes to their health. The two Tangs are really the only big swimmers in the tank (and the Chromis too I guess) but the tank is 5' wide so it certainly has swimming room. And except for the two Tangs, all of the other fish will top out at 2-3" max.

At this point (9 months) my fish seem healthy and happy. I rarely have aggression in the tank, even during feeding (and even from the Damsel, beleive it or not) and often see different species swimming together. Every species has it's own home area and it seems that the other fish respect those boundaries.

I feel that as long as people choose wisely the compatibility and potential size of their species, a fair number of fish can co-exist in our home aquaria.

 

[canadawest]

Ernie,

I think your stocking plan is relatively light for that size tank and should be a very healthy environment. Plenty of swimming room for even three Tangs. I currently have a 4" Blue Tang and 1.5" Yellow Tang in my 100g, and haven't had any problems, although I only recently added the small Yellow Tang a week ago. The Blue Tang has been established for over 6 months, is twice the size and certainly did let the new kid on the block know who the boss of the tank was for the first few days. But now the Blue has accepted the new addtion, and they frequently swim together. (I think the Blue Tang thinks he has a new pretty Yellow girlfriend?)

My main consideration is compatibility in my tank, so your choice to mix clown species also raises a red flag with me. I would recommend a pair of one species of clownfish, rather than two different types like slimy did, but seeing as you already have one of each what can you do? You may also be fine in a tank that large, perhaps each species will find their own happy home in different areas of the tank, away from each other?

Make sure that you are providing plenty of rockwork for any of your different species to make a home out of. Especially for the Tangs who like to hide and sleep in hidden areas of the rockwork. It also gives all the fish a place to swim that is out of sight of others, which greatly reduces aggression in the tank I find.

Check out my website for photos and info.