the new guy needs help.....

[mrfish]

Hi everybody! For the past few days i've been going through past posts and learned a good bit about reef keeping and i'm VERY interested. I've never kept saltwater but i've kept many kinds of discus and arowanas. I'm thinking about turning one of my 30gal discus breeder tanks into a reef setup. There is one thing that is scaring me to death though.... the $$$$$$

i'm a senior in high school with a part time job at the LFS (fresh water only..DARN!) and all these high cost equiptments is scaring me to death. (ro/di = $220, lights = $200-300, skimmer = $100, lr = $90, ls = $80) right now i have around $500 saved up and was wondering if you guys can sorta of lead me into the reefs....

Thanks!

 

[Mouse]

Save your money and go bigger. The equipment rated for such small tanks are really pony. You want to go for about 100 gallons at least. Your obviously keen and have good expirience with discuss. You will only spend all that money and time for something that cost twice as much. A larger tank starts to bring on huge economic advantages, stability and excellent pieces of equipment. Remember theres no rush to start today. Im going to build my system piece by piece starting with the skimmer. I dont care how long it takes but every step will be one step closer. My skimmer is costing £900 alone. It is expensive but i find you pay twice as much but get four times the value back. Go for gold, and sort it properly.

 

[2poor2reef]

Welcome to the hobby. As Mouse said, most of us have spent a lot of money trying to get by with equipment that we wound up replacing, so you don't want to buy cheap equipment. And the numbers you cite that are scaring you are on the low side for quality new equipment. If it were me, I would join a local reef club or start one and keep an eye out for used equipment. Ebay also has some deals sometimes if you're comfortable with that. This way you can get quality equipment at a better price. Also, make sure you buy hard goods mail order to save money when you have to go new.

Another option is to set up a low end tank that you can use as part of a larger system later. For example, many reefers are setting up refugiums to augment their main show tanks. A separate refugium could be set up with a small tank (10 to 30 gallon), with Lights of America 65 watt 6500k fixture(s), without a skimmer (run carbon in a powerfilter or go skimmerless), a deep sand bed and a little live rock, live sand and macroalgae. Such a system would be inexpensive, and would teach you a lot about salt water chemistry. You could learn about maintenance, clean up crews and even keep a few low light corals like mushrooms. Just a thought.

 

[Al Z]

This hobby/obsession does not have to bankrupt you. Do it in steps, and take your time. I would start, before anything else, with a book. Ron Shimek's The Coral Reef Aquarium is a basic guide. It's up to date, brief but thorough, and available mail order, for not too much money.
A 30 gallon tank is not too bad, but you won't spend very much more with 50 or 55 gallon tank, and you'll be glad of the extra space and stability if you do.
You don't need a ton of live sand. Get a couple of bags of the very small grained dry sand, and when you've got the seawater circulating in your tank, add a pound or two of live sand, along with the live rock (which you can 'stretch' with some dry rock, tufa or lace rock). At this point, all you'll need in addition is a heater, an HOB (hang on the back) protein skimmer (I'd recommend the CPR Bakpak), and a couple of powerheads for circulation. You can use dim lights typical for a freshwater tank to begin with - you won't need halides or whatever until you have the photosynthetic animals (corals). The fish, stars, snails, fanworms, crabs, etc., don't need bright light.
But read a book on this first. Make sure it's up to date, and it will save you (and your animals) a lot of problems.

[ July 17, 2001: Message edited by: Al Z ]

 

[myreef]

Welcome to the board! As a fellow Atlantan, I formerly invite you to the next Atlanta Reef Club (ARC) meeting. You can go to www.atlantareefclub.org for more info. The next meeting I believe will be at RickO's house. He is also a member of this board. We have quite a few novices in the club as well as others that have had tanks for years. It is very informal and we don't bite! HAHAHAHA

I think your thinking of a 30 gallon is fine, but just take it very slowly. Maybe save up a few more $. The best thing you can do now is learn and read as much as possible. Try to determine the animals you want to keep and find out if they are compatible. A 30 gallon tank is a nice size to learn in, but you will eventually want to upgrade. It is inevitable. I would put a DSB in, LR, and while the LR is curing, you can save more money for lights. But again, I would determine what you want to keep before buying anything or it oculd be money lost if it is not compatible with the animals you want. If you need anything, post it here and we will answer or email me directly if you have questions about the club. We also have reef club info at www.reefcentral.com Good luck!

 

[Lunchbucket]

i think a 30gal would be ok to learn about saltwater/reef tanks in.

should be able to do it for a decent price. keep sofies that don't requir a lot of light and save money. they are the easiest and allow you to do it cheaper.

plus don't get a big tank if you are gonna go to college. you will be moving a lot and that is a pain to move a tank. i moved my 55gal which worked out ok but was a pain. my advice is do the 30 gal...save some $$, learn, read, go SLOWLY!!!, remeber you can learn and upgrade when you have a stable living space and more $$.

just use VHO's for lights, a HOT skimmer, 4" sand bed...and i don't know how much LR will fit in a 30 gal but shouldn't take much. DIY (do it yourself) on the stand, canopy, sump if you want on...that saves a lot

feel free to ask ?'s here or find people that live by you to help

later
<A HREF="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>
Lunchbucket

 

[mrfish]

wow! thanks for the replies guys! (didn't think it would be so fast!!

) I would REALLY love to have a bigger tank...but i already have one 125gallon, one 55 gallon, three 30 gallons, and i god know how many 20 and 10 gallons... because of all this, my parents have grounded me from buying more tanks

and so the 30 will have to do for right now... BTW is there a website or some place where i can buy all this equiptment for a good price? (i'm currently looking in PetSolution's catalog and was wondering if there was anything that was cheaper....) Right now i think my main concern is the lighting.... (coralife MH 6500k - $239? pricey? cheap?) Thanks guys!

 

[percula]

Welcome to the world of reefing, sadly we have alot in common, scarey huh? Owell. ANyways, the thing that will make life easier is to find out if you want to stay in state for college. GO figure Im getting out of this town, and there is that problem with tanks... im going to have to leave them, but Im having fun anyways! Ok, for equipment, petsolutions is cheap, also check out petwarehouse.com and premiumaquatics.com, I have catologs and such if ya want to look through them. I totally second andy's (myreef's) post! Come to a ARC meeting and well help ya out! No problem, its also easier to understand... firsthand kinda thing.... also email if needed. Where in ATL are you from? Near to? This board is addicting, I gotta leave!

 

[Lunchbucket]

don't blow the cash on MH's right now. don't get me wrong they would kick ass but for you learning and wanting to save some $$ on this tank i would go w/ 2 vho's...then when you get the hang of it and want to add SPS corals and stuff then you can get a MH 6500k and use the 2 vhos for actinic supplement.

stay basic and cheap if you want to do it for $500

later
Lunchbucket

 

[ging]

I have 3 freshwater tanks and just started with the reef/salt tanks. I can tell you that when I stared I was really excited about getting the cool looking fish. But after a short while in the hobby I have become more excited about the corals and the little stuff that you can put in the tank. To have the big/cool fish you need really big tanks and lots of experience. This is a great board to get advice and information, the people here have been really helpful. I know when you get started you will be amazed at the little things that you find in the tank and like me you will spend hours reading and staring at you tank.
ging

 

[Dawlfandav]

I am just adding my two cents. Just a few things starting out. I was in the same position as you when I started. I started with a 20 gal. I had a terrible time keeping the temp stable either too hot during the day when the air was set higher at 80 and too cool by morning, ac set at 74. The tank flucuated 6-8 degrees during the day. Not good. So I fianlly upgraded to a 55 and can control the temp within 1 or 2 degrees. With the help of a fan over the water when the Power compact lights are on. I just thought that may be a concern in Atlanta, I know it can get really hot there. One other thing, as most everyone else stated, You pretty much get what you pay for as equipment goes. But just because its the most expensive does not mean its the best. There is an alternative to just about everything. And from what is the case here in South Florida, most things are cheaper on the net. Just shop around alot. Hope this can help a little. And Good Luck

 

[oyster]

yup, keep it slow. "learn" from the 30G. it won't be as costly as those huge setups should you decide that reef isn't for you one day. but should you find that it's going to stay, you can always upgrade. darn! you are just in college and have a whole life ahead of you. as for lighting, just get the PCs. they will be fine.

 

[danmhippo]

I second the comment on don't go for MH yet. Save your money into PC's. Relatively cheap in comparison and do the work for a 30G (if you have 30G long, that would be even better as more light to be reached onto the sand bed.) I believe with $500, you can have a simple reef setup up and running. Go with DSB, skip the skimmers for now and do regular 10% biweekly water changes. Start with simple feather duster, caulerpa, & shrimps. Tank you already have and that does not add any cost on you. Get a good testing kits to monitor the progress of your chemistry. PC lighting or LOA. 1 or 2 maxijets Powerheads, and you are set.

 

[mrfish]

okay....i'm confused....

this is going to sound really stupid but i thought in order to run VHO bulbs, don't you need a VHO Ballast Kit? ($219? and that doesn't even include the bulbs...) how would that be cheaper than the MH?

*confused*

 

[naesco]

Ging

I am impressed! and so soon, eh!

 

[ging]

naesco,
It just took one dead fish for me to learn my lesson

ging

 

[Lunchbucket]

mrfish...didn't i say diy!!! get an advance ballast from graybar...or take one from work...shhh don't tell anyone. get the sockets, extention cord, wire nutz, bulbs...bingo in business. sorry i forgot about pc's..i would go w/ them for cheap in a 30gal. not very long so you wouldn't need very long bulbs (so pc's would work great) shop around ask ?'s....and most importantly GO SLOW, and learn about something before you add it!!!!

i wouldn't go skimmerless..i am paranoid...i suppose it could be done but a cheap hot skimmer would be some of my dedicated $$$.

later
Lunchbucket

 

[arnjer]

PC lighting------>http://www.marinedepot.com/
or www.lampsnow.com get the retro kit 2x96 watt one blue one 6700k should be ok for the 30 gal with softies you can build your own canopy just be careful not to overheat your tank no matter how tempting there are some animals to stay away from do the research or ask ?'s here and avoid them also you<we> have to think about does the college have a limit on the size of the tank so staying with the 30 gal may be a wise decision feel free to e-mail me with any questions i would be glad to help with what i can

jerry

[ July 17, 2001: Message edited by: arnjer ]

 

[whirley]

Dude, my 2 cents.

First of, GO DIY!
There are a ton of websites/webpages
that tell you how do Do It Yourself.
I created my sump, skimmer, all the plumbing,
etc and think I've saved quite a bit.

Second, put the bulk of your money in good
lights. I know a couple people up top said to PC, but IMHO, the most important thing you
will need are lights. Depending upon what
you want to keep in your tank, MH's are the most economical. I'd go with a 250 watt retro MH. For $165, you can't beat it. Plus, in the future, (if your not broke), you can always use them. 400 watters are nice, but comes with a hefty monthly electricity bill. Of course, lately, there's been a couple threads about DIY MH for $100.

If you don't wanna spend that much on lights (it's worth it..imho), you might wanna go with the LOA 65W lights. You can buy these lights at HomeDepot or your local hardware store. They cost around $25-30. Do a search on LOA, you'll find many thread on them.

It does depend on what you want to keep. Softies and mushies, go with a PC. But if your in this for the long term, I'd go with the MH.

Let see, join reef clubs and trade frags. O...and premium Aquatics RULES !!! www.premiumaquatics.com

I also like www.rodsreef.com for frags.
5 sps frags for $50. How can you beat that?

Just my opinion.
whirley