How can we get more people to stick with this hobby?
- Thread starter Carpentersreef
- Start date
Interesting and thought-provoking thread
I must respectfully disagree with Xcreamist regarding the price of saltwater organisms. Considering that many of them come from remote parts of the world, the mortality, the freight charges, the middlemen and women, I can certainly see why a Yellow Tang costs $20-35 by the time it reaches you and I. I am in the business, so I might have a bit different perspective than one who has not had much "behind the scenes" experience.
MOST freshwater fish are now propagated at fish farms all over the world, and most of the popular species are readily available cheaply, and in many cases, locally. Less expense, less mortality, less cost, cheaper retail price.
As to why people quit the hobby....80% quit within the first 6 months. Why? ALGAE! Algae is the #1 detractor. Figures...a maturing tank goes through the most algae blooms in the first 6-12 months...
I do agree with the posters who observed that it's the MTV generation mentality where every fad is a flash in the pan and they move on to something else. As mentioned, check any animal shelter...this attitude is not limited to fish. It boggles the mind that people will pay hundreds and thousands of dollars for a pedigree dog, fancy cat, horse,exotic birds, fish....heck some people even have CHILDREN and then cast them aside.
My children are in elementary school. They don't play video games, they JUST got a computer to play with (no Internet, just some educational software), they don't watch much TV, except stuff like Animal Planet and Discovery Channel..they devour books and they spend as many hours looking at the fish and corals as my husband and I do. They fully understand the work involved, and very soon I expect to set up a tank for my older child, as she seems to share our passion for the hobby. Our son, too will probably want his own tank in a couple of years. They already share the responsibilities of taking care of the cats and dog, so they are aware of the care that animals require. These are the hobbyists (and hopefully responsible adults) of the future.
Education is the key. I've been guilty of "scaring" away somebody or two that from conversing with them, I've concluded they don't have the intelligence or the inclination to do what it takes. Sorry if that sounds insensitive or not politically correct but when an explanation that freshwater fish live in ponds, lakes and rivers, and saltwater fish live in the oceans doesn't distinguish it for someone, I have visions of them putting a Naso tang in with their neon tetras.... If somebody doesn't grasp fairly easily, that these won't live in fresh water..well, they have a LOT of work to do before I would consider them qualified to part with any of the specimens *I* was selling. I've serviced a tank recently, belonging to a wealthy family, who also have 5 dogs and 2 horses. The fish were sick with HLLE...they don't care, they don't understand...their filtration was inadequate and their nitrates were over 160 (my test kit only reads to 160!)...I convinced them to upgrade their system, and took their fish in for treatment, but two weeks later they have YET to confirm the appointment to perform the upgrades....of course 3 of their dogs live outside and are never paid attention to, and the other 2 are always crated indoors when I've been there on 3 occasions. The kids are left in front of the big screen TV while mom is upstairs...each of the 3 times I've been there...Respectfully, these are not hobbyists, they just want status symbols.
I think there are enough hard-core hobbyists such as ourselves to help make a difference educating those with enough interest, but the bottom line is that only a small percentage of those people entering the hobby have the inclination to do things properly.
Ethically, I have no problem scaring away people who aren't committed. If they ARE committed, nothing *I* or anyone else can say will scare them off. Discouraging someone who won't do it "right" will save at least a dozen or so lives of the creatures who will be sacrificed to their ignorance.
Jenn
I must respectfully disagree with Xcreamist regarding the price of saltwater organisms. Considering that many of them come from remote parts of the world, the mortality, the freight charges, the middlemen and women, I can certainly see why a Yellow Tang costs $20-35 by the time it reaches you and I. I am in the business, so I might have a bit different perspective than one who has not had much "behind the scenes" experience.
MOST freshwater fish are now propagated at fish farms all over the world, and most of the popular species are readily available cheaply, and in many cases, locally. Less expense, less mortality, less cost, cheaper retail price.
As to why people quit the hobby....80% quit within the first 6 months. Why? ALGAE! Algae is the #1 detractor. Figures...a maturing tank goes through the most algae blooms in the first 6-12 months...
I do agree with the posters who observed that it's the MTV generation mentality where every fad is a flash in the pan and they move on to something else. As mentioned, check any animal shelter...this attitude is not limited to fish. It boggles the mind that people will pay hundreds and thousands of dollars for a pedigree dog, fancy cat, horse,exotic birds, fish....heck some people even have CHILDREN and then cast them aside.
My children are in elementary school. They don't play video games, they JUST got a computer to play with (no Internet, just some educational software), they don't watch much TV, except stuff like Animal Planet and Discovery Channel..they devour books and they spend as many hours looking at the fish and corals as my husband and I do. They fully understand the work involved, and very soon I expect to set up a tank for my older child, as she seems to share our passion for the hobby. Our son, too will probably want his own tank in a couple of years. They already share the responsibilities of taking care of the cats and dog, so they are aware of the care that animals require. These are the hobbyists (and hopefully responsible adults) of the future.
Education is the key. I've been guilty of "scaring" away somebody or two that from conversing with them, I've concluded they don't have the intelligence or the inclination to do what it takes. Sorry if that sounds insensitive or not politically correct but when an explanation that freshwater fish live in ponds, lakes and rivers, and saltwater fish live in the oceans doesn't distinguish it for someone, I have visions of them putting a Naso tang in with their neon tetras.... If somebody doesn't grasp fairly easily, that these won't live in fresh water..well, they have a LOT of work to do before I would consider them qualified to part with any of the specimens *I* was selling. I've serviced a tank recently, belonging to a wealthy family, who also have 5 dogs and 2 horses. The fish were sick with HLLE...they don't care, they don't understand...their filtration was inadequate and their nitrates were over 160 (my test kit only reads to 160!)...I convinced them to upgrade their system, and took their fish in for treatment, but two weeks later they have YET to confirm the appointment to perform the upgrades....of course 3 of their dogs live outside and are never paid attention to, and the other 2 are always crated indoors when I've been there on 3 occasions. The kids are left in front of the big screen TV while mom is upstairs...each of the 3 times I've been there...Respectfully, these are not hobbyists, they just want status symbols.
I think there are enough hard-core hobbyists such as ourselves to help make a difference educating those with enough interest, but the bottom line is that only a small percentage of those people entering the hobby have the inclination to do things properly.
Ethically, I have no problem scaring away people who aren't committed. If they ARE committed, nothing *I* or anyone else can say will scare them off. Discouraging someone who won't do it "right" will save at least a dozen or so lives of the creatures who will be sacrificed to their ignorance.
Jenn
Hmmmm, how to keep more people to stick with the hobby....one thing that jumps out at me is the huge egos prevalent in both LFS workers and established reef keeping folk. Lose the arrogance, be willing to teach and be patient with people new to the scene. I can remember when I first started way back in 1989, I got blasted for not having a trickle filter, no Bio-Balls or Bio-Pak, not having a bare-bottom reef, and having a way too small 20 gallon tank, when everyone *knew* the smallest tank acceptible for a reef was at least a 55 gallon.
If it wasn't for dogged persistence/stubbornness, I would've quit a long time ago. Take the condescending attitudes somewhere else and remember that at one time, we all started at square one. Patience goes a long way, and goes even further with new hobbyists. It will be appreciated more than one might realize.
Right on Dieselboy, everyone must first walk before they can run. Yes, there are people out there that are going to overstock a tank or try to keep two incompatible species together even though everyone tells them not to do it. But for the most part, serious hobbiest are very willing to listen and learn from the "experts". Unfortunetly, for every reef keeper out there, there is a different opinion on what is the correct way. If everyone would do more advising rather than preaching their points might sink in a little easier.
The LFS just assumes that the person buying a coral or fish knows what they are doing. They don't ask about tank size or whether it is a reef or fish only, they just sell you what you ask for. If people like JennM take the time to educate, there might be one less loss and one more person sticking with the hobby. She should be commended for scaring someone off if that person isn't committed to the amount of work and expense that this hobby requires.
The LFS just assumes that the person buying a coral or fish knows what they are doing. They don't ask about tank size or whether it is a reef or fish only, they just sell you what you ask for. If people like JennM take the time to educate, there might be one less loss and one more person sticking with the hobby. She should be commended for scaring someone off if that person isn't committed to the amount of work and expense that this hobby requires.
WOOOHOOO my 400 post!!!!
Thanks Greg, but I'm not alone out there. There are many LFS owners and staffers who do what I do, it's just that we don't hear about them as often as we hear about the MORONS out there...
Somebody on a seahorse list that I belong to just told me about talking to an LFS person who tried to tell him that seahorses are filter feeders
THOSE are the things we freak about and talk about and sadly many good LFS types get painted with the same brush.
Yes there can be an amount of arrogance out there, "my way or no way" in both hobbyists AND LFS workers alike. I've seen this.
Personally I have my way of doing stuff (mostly Berlin or a variation of it), I don't believe in DSB for MY purposes, but I can't discount its validity because I've read countless experiences of successes with it. However, I wouldn't necessarily recommend DSB to a newbie...it must be done right to work, and in many cases, especially with newbies, the KISS principal applies (keep it simple, stupid
).
Communication is the answer. LEARN how long the customer (fellow hobbyist, whatever) has been at it, listen to his or her successes and failures and help him or her change things that didn't work and re-create things that did work.
This whole hobby is not an exact science. What works for me might not work for you.
I know people who haven't done water changes for 2 years
and I know those who are afraid to use LR and use UGF and sponge filters
I'm not recommending either extreme, but if the livestock is happy and healthy, who is to say it's wrong?
Learning about this hobby and what makes for thriving specimens is a never-ending process. The person who thinks they've got to the point where they know enough is in trouble, IMO.
Jenn <---learning something new every day.
Thanks Greg, but I'm not alone out there. There are many LFS owners and staffers who do what I do, it's just that we don't hear about them as often as we hear about the MORONS out there...
Somebody on a seahorse list that I belong to just told me about talking to an LFS person who tried to tell him that seahorses are filter feeders
Yes there can be an amount of arrogance out there, "my way or no way" in both hobbyists AND LFS workers alike. I've seen this.
Personally I have my way of doing stuff (mostly Berlin or a variation of it), I don't believe in DSB for MY purposes, but I can't discount its validity because I've read countless experiences of successes with it. However, I wouldn't necessarily recommend DSB to a newbie...it must be done right to work, and in many cases, especially with newbies, the KISS principal applies (keep it simple, stupid
Communication is the answer. LEARN how long the customer (fellow hobbyist, whatever) has been at it, listen to his or her successes and failures and help him or her change things that didn't work and re-create things that did work.
This whole hobby is not an exact science. What works for me might not work for you.
I know people who haven't done water changes for 2 years
Learning about this hobby and what makes for thriving specimens is a never-ending process. The person who thinks they've got to the point where they know enough is in trouble, IMO.
Jenn <---learning something new every day.
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