Who runs skimmerless systems?

[grimreefer1]

Hi!
I was just at aqualink.com and they have a whole forum about running skimmerless systems.

However, being the loyal reefs.org fan that I am, I thought I would bring up the topic here.

I am getting LR, sand, corals and a couple fish TONIGHT from a guy who is breaking down his tank. I have been worried about it cycling, even though it's basically like moving an established tank (except for the sand bed disturbance). Anyway, I was thinking it would be great to save money by not buying a skimmer, especially if it is actually going to be beneficial to my tank.

So far, it will be set up as follows:
100g tank
at least 4 maxijets
140 pounds LR
live sand
some toadstool
'shrooms
gonipora (yikes! not a beginner coral, I may give it to my boyfriend)
a derasa clam
2 tangs (going to get rid of bigger one)
2 false percs
algae blenny
6 line wrasse

I may run a canister for a few days if the sand bed transfer makes the tank cloudy.

I will also have fresh (not fresh) water on hand in case I get an ammonia spike.

So, on the skimmerless subject, I will be adding a ton of caulerpa, hopefully much more than the tang will eat. From what I have read, lots of water circulation and caulerpa (or other macros) are key for maintaining skimmerless.

Any thoughts?

Thanks! and wish me luck tonight, it's going to be a late night, aquascaping and all that....

 

[Styk33]

I run a skimmerless tank with no worries. I am probably one of the laziest reefers here, in that I don't test my water (except for sg and temp), or do water changes. My only deaths after the first 6 months were from carpet surfing or powerheads.

Right now in my tank I have some xenia, about 6 different shrooms, (new) polyps, bubble coral, ~70lbs of LR in a 55G tank. I have a three striped damsel and a yellow tank, along with a blue linkia, and CC star. 30 snails, 10 blue legs, 5 red legs and an emerald crab.

I am putting in a sump this next week with some macro algea and we will see how that goes.

My tank has been up for 3 years, no problems. Although not everyone can be 'lucky' like me

 

[Len]

Grim,

Stay here

This is inflamatory, but the average member of the Aqualink Skimmerless board is often times misguided/misinformed. Heaven forbid you don't agree with their ideas ...

Seriously, going skimmerless is more of a life-style choice there then it is a reefkeeping methodlogy.

Styk,

If you aren't currently utilizing macroalgae, how you are facilitating nutrient export? Very often water changes? Microalgae?

 

[Styk33]

My last water change was two years ago. Nutrient export? Maybe micro alge, since I don't really see anything growing in my tank (except my fish and inverts). I clean some green alge off the glass every couple days, other than that, I do not do anything.

Everything seems happy in my tank, so I have seen no need to do anything. I am adding a sump next weekend with a bunch of macro algea that has been in my tank for the last 2 weeks.

I rarely feed my tank, so maybe that explains it, I am not sure. It does well (so far), I am happy (right now).

 

[grimreefer1]

Jay, the link to your tank and ricemobile doesn't work!

Also, I was saying I was concerned about getting an ammonia spike because I don't have a skimmer and it's a new set-up. Would having a skimmer in place prevent this from happening? Oh well, too late now, I will just have extra water on hand.

Honestly, despite all the misgivings others have about not skimming, I am very excited about not skimming! Or maybe I'm just excited about my tank in general.

 

[Styk33]

I should add that I seem to be a minority in my town. Most of the guys I get frags from seem to have more complex setups.

 

[Styk33]

I tested the link and had another test it, it works. Maybe to many hits at once

. Try again, I have been uploading some pics of things, so it might have not liked something.

During the intitial start of my tank I did do one water change, but that was because I had to much salt. There are many others that have more knowledge than me, I just know my tank, and it works. When I cycled my tank I might have done two water changes, but the were 10% if that. Since there was nothing of value (there was, but at the time I didn't consider the fish as valuable, as I do now) in the tank, so I just 'rode' it on out.

I personally do not use or plan to use a skimmer, but if I ever have a problem a water change is what I would do. Others probably have better advice, but I am cheap, so I go skimmerless.

 

[SPC]

Grim, is this your first salt tank?

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Leonard

If the tank has been using a skimmer I would keep it on, at least for a while. The spike that is possible from the transfer could easily stress the occupants beyond their ability to adjust. This is primarily due to the fact that the system is used to the skimming. There are many very respected people running skimmerless systems with no problem. It is suggested bythose with experience running both systems to slowly wean a tank used to a skimmer. The tank I am setting up now (been running for a couple of months)is skimmerless and is also a 100 gal. HTH

 

[kjb]

I run skimmerless with 30# of LR and DSB in a 55g tank w/20g sump. Just 3 chromis, a few snails and crabs, worms and such, etc.
I would like an illuminated sump though.
I do find that having all the overflow water pass through a cheapo filter pad which I remove and replace with fresh seems to help immensly.

[ July 14, 2001: Message edited by: kjb ]

 

[nala]

Hi,
I run all my tanks skimmerless...they were set up that way

Your set-up sounds fine to me. Hopefully you won't see much/any Ammonia. Good luck and post some PICS when you get settled in

 

[Len]

Pesky Steve

I see you're calling for reinforcements

If Fish Whisperer jumps into the fray (here or in RC), I'm going to make a quick exit from the waters. That guy bites at anything that disagrees with him.

 

[grimreefer1]

Yes, it's my first tank. Ideally, I would not be getting the corals and fish, but the guy who is selling me all of his stuff is giving me a fantastic deal, and needed to do it right away, even though I'm not quite ready. hence, the questions about skimmerless arise because I DON'T YET HAVE A SKIMMER! oh no!

The 140 pounds of Live rock is 2 years old, at 2.50 a pound. At least I think this is a good deal.

Oh yes, my boyfriend has a55g reef, which is thriving marvelously. He runs a piccolo skimmer on it, though. No sump, no filtration (except LR) and he has a shallow coral gravel (not sand) substrate.

 

[reefer madness1]

Here is my experience going skimmerless-turned mine off one night because I was feeding dt's,forgot to turn it on the next morning. Two days later my BTA was going downhill fast,didnt know why,the next day realized my skimmer was off and turned it back on. the following day the BTA was bright eyed and bushy tailed. Ive got a 120 with 250+ LR, a 30 sump and a 30 refugium with the macro algae and dsb. It may just of been a coincedence with the skimmer being off and things going down hill,but I dont think so.

 

[Anonymous]

Reefers experience is why it is suggested to not go skimmerless cold turkey. Since your boyfriend has a tank, it may be a good idea to use it for the corals if there is a problem. HTH

 

[william snyder]

PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ONLY
Grimreaper, (I know, it's not reaper)

I have a 29 gallon skimmerless reef set up. Plenty of LR, DSB of aragonite, powerhead, very light fish load, (small true perc, 6 line wrasse) and coral everywhere...(Open brain, schromms, seamat, leather, frogspawn etc) Coraline aglae running amok. Two gallon water change without fail once a week. Water parameters always very good but NOT the 0 readings of the skimmed systems.(Nitrates around 20, phophates low) Never had a coral death. Fish in perfect health. My setup is in my office with space a premium and the less complex the better. Maybe for home use, a better case could be made for skimming and the other methods.

Skimmerless is doable but attention to detail is in order.

Good luck

 

[Styk33]

For those of you looking for my site it seems to work (for me), for a few others I have asked that have never been to it. I have 8 hits from this thread already today. I am done uploading stuff, so it should work from here on, if not let me know the error (ie 404, thanks 'kjb'). Not sure why, but the uploading might have bogged the server I use.

A warning for those of you using netscape. My site is unlikely to work with that program. I only had 1% of my hits the first 6 months, so I stopped the headache of designing it around both browsers.

 

[KenH]

I run a small 20 gallon desk tank skimmerless and it has been doing great for over 2 years now with only 1 gallon of water changed each week and no other supplements. It primarily houses soft and LPS corals. The tank actually houses a skimmer,but it is adjusted so that it does not skim anything. There is some nutrient export through some in-tank macroalgae growth and xenia pruning, but I do not think this is a substantial amount. Aso this tank actually gets very little water circulation compared to my other (skimmed) tanks. I don't know that this has any relevance on its success and probably doesn't.

Heres a pic.

My larger tanks on the other hand all use high powered skimmers on them. These tend to be SPS dominated high demand type systems with relatively heavy bioload and high intensity lighting. I wouldn't consider setting one of these up without a skimmer because there is no value other than saving the cost of the skimmer, which is minor in relation to the cost of the rest of the setup.

There is nothing wrong with going skimmerless, especially in a low demand type of system, but a skimmer does do the following for you
* Increases gaseous exchange and helps to maintain high O2 levels in the water. This was probably Reef Madness' problem when he shut down his skimmer.
* Gives you more margin for error and can only help to reduce possible problems with nitrates and problem algae growth, although these can be controlled without skimming.
* Increases the bioload your tank can safely handle and hence can help increase your safe stocking limits.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

--- Ken

 

[bigtank]

I have a 3 gallon eclipse without a skimmer. It contains lots of caulerpa, some yellow polyps, a pound of LR, cleaner shrimp, and a small damsel. On a tank this small, there's really no point of using a skimmer IMHO. I don't plan on adding anything else, except maybe some shrooms.

OTOH, my 70 has a skimmer and I would NEVER consider removing it. It pulls out lots of crap. I do have a ton of caulerpa though, for extra gunk export.

The 70 will house some SPS in the future, and IMO they need the cleanest water you can give them. Just my .04.