Starting a Saltwater Tank...... guidence needed

[a novice]

Hey everyone!
I’m new to salt water aquariums and I was hoping that some of you more experienced people could help me. A while back I had a big (120 gallon) freshwater aquarium but had to sell it because of relocation. I would like to start a new aquarium and would like to try a salt water one. A fish only setup seems to be a good idea for a beginner tank but I would like to have the capability of going to a reef at a later time. I was thinking of a tank somewhere between a 30 and a 55 gallon. I would like to keep a few clown fish and maybe some small fishes. Here are the questions that I have come up with after reading and researching:
Is bigger really easier? I’ve read many places that bigger is easier because it’s harder to mess up the water(like pH, chemical, etc.) but I don’t really want to have a huge tank. I like the idea of a small/mid size aquarium(30-55).
How many clownfishes can you put in a tank? This is an issue I’m really confused about. Some books say a school is fine, some say that one is the max, and others say it’s best to keep them in a pair. I’m thinking of getting two tank raised false percula clown fish to put in my tank but if I could, I would like to get another pair of a different type(maroon, tomatoe..?).

I haven’t bought any equipment yet because I was hoping to get an ‘all in one’ package. Do any online stores sell an all in one type package that includes the tank and equipment? I’ve check my local stores but I’m not that confident in their knowledge and wouldn’t buy any livestock from them because of the tank conditions. Recommendations anyone?
Thanks for all the help and you could answer any of my questions it would be appreciated!

 

[Quillen]

Be very weary of anyone who wants to sell you something that is "reef ready." Make sure you find out what all is included, because most of the time, it is not much.

What do you plan on having in your tank? You may still want some live sand and live rock. You would buy normal sand and then put a little live sand with it. The difference between a reef tank and a fish only is there is less rock and presence of coral. The lights don't need to be as good for a FO tank, so this is a nice thing to upgrade later.

The smaller the tank, the more changes in water quality are going to be a problem. I started out in a 15 g and still have my first fish. You would find that the larger the tank, the more you can have the fish you want. You'll want to be careful about how you stock your tank (ie SLOWLY and with less fish then in fresh water).

As far as the clown fish go, most clown fish are extremely aggressive. The kind of clown fish that can go in a group are percs. Clown fish types tend not to mix well. A maroon clown fish would be very likely to kill percs, tomatos sometimes kill any other fish. Sometimes it can be sucessfully done, but you need to pick your favorite kind and stick with one normally. I like Maroon Clownfish, but I could only have two.. and only then if they decided to be a mated pair

. http://www.biodiversity.uno.edu/ebooks/intro.html

If you like, I can send you some links about fish online. It would take a few minutes to gather. Good luck!

 

[a novice]

Thanks for the reply! After reading your post, I now understand that it's not a good idea to mix clownfish species but could I put, for example, four false percula? I guess I should have clarified that I do intend to have live sand and some live rocks but I don't want to get into the special corals initially.

Okay, now for the diffucult part... choosing equipment. I've found so many different types of protein skimmers that it's confusing. I was looking at the Prizm Hang on Skimmer RED SEA... it's about $79 --- what's the difference between this, and something like a Berlin Air Lift that retails for half the money. Ideas? I'm figuring on getting a 50 gallon tank...any and all equipment recomendations are welcome! Could someone run over what the basic equiment needs are? Skimmer, powerheads, heater... etc.
Thanks

 

[Quillen]

They have a perc tank of 200 in Las Vegas

Decide what you want and then check it out with someone. I have only set up the equitment on two tanks, someone else should help you tech wise. If you have any questions in the future that you think a low tech girl can answer, then feel free to email me at [email protected] or send me a private msg.

 

[Quillen]

Ro = reverse osmosis. http://members.tripod.com/~urila/index.htm
DI =Dual Ion Exchange http://www.mindspring.com/~nestor10/text/dirotxt.htm
You might like these webpages that explain a little bit about it.

 

[GMH320]

I am fairly new to the hobby myself and like you had a hundred questions on equipment, setup, etc., etc. Unfortunitely, there are as many opinions on how to do thing as there are hobbyists. I eventually want to keep corals so I planned for that in selecting lighting, powerheads and filtering. I kept it fairly simple...75 lbs live rock in a 46 gal. bow front tank with 206 watts lighting. A hang on remora does the protein skimming. Right now there are a bunch of snails, hermit crabs, a brittle star and cleaner shrimp in the tank. Once I get some more experience keeping water parameters correct and let the tank settle in, I'll get some corals. Good luck.

 

[a novice]

Does anyone know about a setup called the 'uniquarium' by Advanced Acrylic Tanks? I came across their website and supposedly it a self contained salt water aquarium. Their website is: www.advanceaquatanks.com
I emailed them for a few different price quotes but I was wondering if these are any good? Thanks

[ July 13, 2001: Message edited by: a novice ]

 

[cindywennin]

Their tanks are beautiful but speaking from experience...not related to Advanced Acrylic Tanks...go with a piece-by-piece setup. It is more expensive in the begining but this hobby isn't cheap anyway! With an all inclusive package you will have problems with replacement parts, i.e.—finding the exact part to fit the limited space you are supplied with, you will also have extremely limited space for heaters, chillers if needed, calcium reactors, larger protein skimmers etc. I have found the skimmer included on my tank isn't near powerful enough! And figuring out how to add a sump was crazy!

Trust me

you will save yourself alot of time and headaches if you piece the equipment to begin with!

As far as size goes...it does matter!

It matters because if you can't afford to maintain the tank the way it should be maintained with water changes, replacement pumps, light bulb replacements, additives if needed etc, you will spend a lot more money in the long run replacing lost critters than if you had invested in the proper equipment to begin with.

Start with books and research on the internet, which you are already doing. Find out if anyone in your area keeps saltwater fish or reef tanks speak with and visit them. See what their tanks look like and make the decision whether to take their advice by the looks of their tank. Keeping SW fish is different and easier IMO than keeping a reef. Keep in mind if you want a reef tank, speak with someone who has one. Most of us love to show off our piece of the ocean! Good Luck!
Cindy

 

[a novice]

I understand that having a all in one system has it downsfalls such as repair and equipment additions but when space is limited too its a tradeoff. From reading the literature on their website, supposedly it has space for an additional skimmer and heater. The ease of installing it, and the clean look are definite pluses to me. For a beginner tank, would it be okay or is it just a waste of money?
I have some friends that have salt water setups and I've talked to them but as you know opinions vary and that's why I came here to get some other peoples views.
Thanks

 

[cindywennin]

As for aesthetics...there is room under the stand for the sump and added extras, those are easy to hide. Depending on what you plan to keep...the system you are looking at may be OK.
Look at the price and size of the set-up and ask yourself if you mind spending more in the future to upgrade when the "reef devil" sits on your shoulder and says...Wow if we only had a bigger tank we could...? Alot of people I know started with smaller tanks and upgraded but still utilize the smaller tank for a sump, grow-out tank, etc. Depending on your situation it may work. It is really a personal decision. If you do go with the all-in-one, get the biggest skimmer they offer.
Cindy

 

[wasabi]

i always thought /di stood for deionized?

 

[Anonymous]

It does.

 

[srbayless]

Howdy,

OK, here is what I would recommend to a new reefer:

55 gallon glass tank from Petco. Cheap, fairly well built, and a good starter size.

VHO lighting - you can get a good package deal for around $250 at www.marinedepot.com or www.lampsnow.com. A regular fluorescent lihgting setup will be at least $100, so getting the better lihgting won't cost much more. VHO will allow you to keep most corals, when you do add them.

Aqua C Remora or Remora Pro protein skimmer - The protein skimmer is the most important peice of filtration equipment you will buy, at least in my opinion. I believe the remora is $150 and the Pro is $200. Don't skimp when it comes to buying a protein skimmer. I purchased a seaclone for my first tank, what a mistake. I just ended up buying a better skimmer later on, so I was out the $70 bucks I spend on the seaclone.

55 pounds of live rock - Live rock will be the other form of filtration you will have in your tank. You usually want at least 1 pound for every gallon. More is better. Live rock also makes the fish you will keep more at ease since they will have places to hide and can setup territories to claim.

4-5' deep sand bed. This is the final element in your filtration setup. The DSB houses little critters that will eat the extra food and stuff (commonly referred to as detritous) that would start to pollute the tank if not taken care of.

Usually you can keep larger numbers of juvenile clownfish (especially percula) than of adult. Never keep differnt species of adult clown fish in a tank small than 150 gallons. Clownfish are very territorial among the same species, and can get downright violent with other types of clownfish.

By putting juvenile clownfish in the tank, they will work out a pecking order as they grow. Putting several adults in will usually result in fights, injuries, and deaths.

You can go cheaper to begin with, but end up spending more cash to replace the cheaper items you bought in the first place.

The absolute best advice I can give, is to buy some books and read up on the hobby before spending your hard earned cash. I liked The Conscientous Marine Aquarist by Fenner and Turk, it's a good "beginner" book. I also like The Natural Reef Aquarium by Tullock and Moe.

The only other peice of advice would be to take it slow. Once you have the equipment setup, don't rush right out and buy fish to put into the tank. I have found that taking your time and being patient is the true key to success in this hobby. Most of the people who have left did so becuase they rushed into to, had their tank crash, and were disheartened.

Good luck,

Scott.

 

[Chaser]

I considered the uniquarium myself when I was getting started. They are clean looking. However, the space for he built-in protein skimmer, which is just a low-end air powered one. Also, by having a tank with the partition built-in, you lose valuable tank space.

My set-up is a 40gal glass with 2x96w pc, ev-90 skimmer in a sump, and hang-on refugium.

Like you, I starting thinking about this hobby a year ago, and had far more questions than answers. The books suggested, as well as this board are a great help.

 

[reefmack]

i'd second an above notion to use RO/DI water - and make sure you spend your money in the right places (lights, quality LR), don't get RIO pumps unless your life depends on it (and maybe not even then - you'll hopefully never find out why), and 55 gallon is a wierd tank - same length as a 75 but much less width - so they take up about the same amount of space edgewise - but you get much more gallonage and options with the 75

this is going to be one of the most exhilirating things you'll ever do - take it slow and get your learn on before each new step!!!!

 

[EnchantedSea]

I want to stress that you use RO/DI water. I made the mistake of using distilled only and my god!, the algae problems. Save yourself this heartache and do it right from the beginning. RO/DI water is a must. How soon do you want to add corals? You may want to go ahead and get the proper lighting from the beginning instead of buying two different lighting systems. Good Luck.

 

[a novice]

Not to sound dumb, but I am assuming that RO/DI is specially filtered water?

I'm new to all the a abbriviations... If at all, I problaby wouldn't do coral for at least a year or so. I was thinking of setting it up with the lighting just so that I don't have to change it around. Thanks for the help!

 

[ncosper]

I would be lost after reading all these posts if I didn't know what I was doing. Everyones posts are accurate and have good advice, but everyone says something a little different and thats gotta be confusing. I'll just try and sum some of this up and make it simple.
First you should do a month or two or research and reading. Your biggest mistake will be setting up a Fish only tank, when you end up wanting a reef. You'll have to get rid of all those fish, or maybe some of them, and start over. Make sure a FO or reef tank is what you want from the start. Also get a good idea of what you will want for livestock and pick your tank size accordingly.
Second you will want a big tank! Even if 55 is what you're looking at on the large end of the scale, that is a small Salt water aquarium and you will be very limited in what you can house, especially if you go smaller than that. Most everyone ends up wanting too, or going much bigger than that.
Next pick your filtration. A skimmer, contrary to a few comments here, is NOT essential to a reef tank, however its a very nice thing to have and will make life easier in the long run. Get a good one as well, as stated above, cheap ones will just be replaced. More or less picking your skimmer you can go by price. As a general rule with most skimmers the more you pay the more gunk it filters, and that is a good thing! A good canister filter or wet/dry filter will also be a good thing to have.
Next, when your ready and you do start, don't use tap water!!! I wish I would have known better when I started, but I didn't. The reason you want to use RO/DI water is the nitrate and phosphorous levels in your normal tap water. Nitrates and phosphates fuel algae growth. These algaes that will occur SUCK! RO/DI water can be purchased at good fish stores, and drinking water stores. Also ro/di filters are sold for you home, but they are pricey.
Lastly for important general rules, is GO SLOW. Add your fish slowly, you chemical levels will stay much better and managable, if you just go slow.
There are a million and ten things to learn about marine tanks, and I'd try and learn as many or them as you can before you take on this endeavor. Its a hell of a lot more rewarding than you freshwater tank was, but can be a TON more work and far and away more expensive.
I hope this helps make some of the posts more understandable.
One more thing, use these online forums. They really will answer a lot of questions that books can't. Don't always believe everything your hear, but most of the advice given is very good.

 

[a novice]

Thank you to everyone! You don't even understand how much help and support you've been.
After adding up all the costs associated with the tank I becomming a little hesitant on going so big.(ie 55g) I'm used to starting small and if I like it, going big(as in, don't start with a scarlet macaw, try a parakeet first) I would rather start with a $300 tank and then if I really like the hobby go to a $1200 tank. I know that you consider a 55 gallon tank small but I don't...
Is it possible to have a small setup for under something like $350?(not including fish or live rock)
Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

Your Tank should be your least expensive investment. Try to start with a 55 or better 75 gallon. Buy a used Tank. These tanks are very common and usually you can buy someones FW setup for $100 or so. You can use the tank maybe some powerheads if equiped. Once you get into this hobby. Reef or Fish only, you may become discouraged with the fish you should NOT keep in a tank smaller than 55 gallon and like most decide that you can put them in there any way. This gets you stressed and dead fish.

I had Freshwater tanks for many years and Know very well 55 gallon is large for fresh it is however small for salt when you consider stocking options.

Find a used 55 or 75 and believe me if this is the only thing that people here can convince you to do differently you will not believe how much easier road you will travel.

Welcome and Good luck