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idua

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I read countless post about the two, their benefits and downsides and I’m trying to decide what would be a better choice. I know that some of you don’t use them and would not recommend using neither but I would like to keep one handy just in case … a piece of mind if you will. So, if you have either ozonizer or UV or both which would you recommend? Thanks for your help.
 

Mouse

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On my current system i use U.V. because its too samll to add Ozone, and i dont have a sump so theres no way of putting the freshly skmmed water through any carbon to remove the excess Ozone, and theres no sump to let it diffuse naturally. The U.V. is only really good for the controll of freefloating bacteria and microrganisms like ICK etc.

Ozone on the other hand is better because you still get the steriliseing affects that the U.V. has plus increased skimming efficiency, higher Redox potential (can even be controlled by a Redox computer), and it will also make your reef smell fresh as a daisy and will stop the water from aquireing a yellow tinge. Just make sure if you use Ozone that you get a reactor suitable for your size tank as it can be very toxic to fish etc, or better yet get a computer to controll the dosage by keeping the Redox potential set. A word of warning, if by some freak occurance the water should syphon back into the unit it will explode. And i really do mean explode, takeing out your tank, cabinet, and probably half of your living room. Also if the ozone should become dissconnected from the skimmer theres a good chance you will poison yourself and your whole family in your sleep. But these are all the sacrifices we make....
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Basically make sure the unit is allways above the level of the tank and it will be sweeeeeeeeeet. Some people here in Europe use both, but IMO they do the same job and the Ozone is so much better!
 

idua

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WOW, hold on for one second. You just scared the living Jesus out of me: explode!, poison!. These are not the words that I wanted to hear but otherwise the post is a great piece of information. I looked at couple of different ozonizer units on the net and they look like a little electronic gizmos. Would someone care to explain how exactly do they do they work and little about the safety of using them.
 

FMarini

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Hi:
first off do a search for ozone (here and at aqualink.com) these topics have been discussed to death.
Second, you have to decide what your trying to accomplish by using these devices. Many people w/ reef tank vote againist using these items as they indescriminately kill both good and bad.
Assuming you know what you want, Uv is more controllable and less potent at sterilizing, and ozone is more potent and should be controlled to be used effectively.
So I use a ozotech 300mg ozone unit on my 180gal fish only system. I use a controller to monitors is use, and i have the outflows (both air and water) pass over bags of carbone to remove any residual O3. For me it works well and reduces my likelihood of disease outbreak.
Do a search..theres alot more info out there
 

Carpentersreef

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I have both and use neither on any constant basis. I wanted them both, though, for peace of mind. How many $150 fish and/or corals do you risk losing while something goes wrong with your tank, until it adds up to the price of these items which may be what is required to "disinfect" the water? I've got WAY too much yet to learn about my reef, and I am expecting to make mistakes that may harm the inhabitants.(although I try really hard not to) Thankfully, I've had them for a year and have never had to use them. My system is about 240 -250g, I've got a 25w uv and a 200mg/hr ozonizer.

[ July 06, 2001: Message edited by: Carpentersreef ]
 

Cruiser

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Idua

UV's work very well when used correctly, meaning balancing the dwell time. UV's are great at removing bacteria, fungi, molds, protozoans if the "dwell" time (flow rate / dosage rate) is calculated, and incorporated into the aquariums plumbing.

Ozone is generated by either passing an electric current or ultraviolet radiation through a source of air. Ozone is very reactive and through its oxidative characteristics attacks organics & dissolved organics - clarifying the water (especially when used in conjunction with a skimmer), and also killing bacteria and protozoan parasites
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Minimal exposures with the use of Ozone generation associated with aquariums. Ozone has a very distinctive smell, similar to
"burnt sunshine", (yes I know, your asking well, does sunshine smell
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. Regarding safety to humans, there is a NIOSH standard for exposure: 1ppt/10M if I remember correctly. If the aquarium unit ever became disconnected, the time necessary to produce a dangerous-toxic level in a home is very large, and the occupants would notice the smell long before it ever becomes a concern.

Overall, ozone is the best "bang for the buck" process used to "sterilize" aquarium water, in my humble opinion. Also remember that ozone is a non discriminate oxidizer of good & bad microfauna!

Mouse:
I haven't seen any industrial ozone generators explode from water contact, other then the hot UV bulb exploding (very localized inside the housing) / cracking. Largest problem is drying the air supply, and eliminating mositure, as it reduces the Ozone production levels.
 

John@Carline

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OK, so how would one know which unit is best to get for them?? What size ozonizer would be needed for a 150g tank? Also can u plumb it into the intake of a Beckett?? Or a Venturi???Which brand and "style" is best?? Redsea?Ultralife?Ozotech?? what are the advantage/disadvantages to these?? Already have a controller that can control a generator so what is needed?? Would like to plumb into a skimmer directly if possible?
 

idua

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Thanks for the info Cruiser. As John@Carline said does anyone know where can we find little more information on hooking it up and what brands/models are good.
 

RUaBatfish2

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Idua, how about saving your money for more important equipment. UV is a waste of money and I don't believe it will cure ick or at least kill it off. I have 2 UV units sitting in a closet and Ozone can be dangerous if not used correctly. These units will not help in an emergency. It's very easy to buy a lot of unnessesary stuff in this hobby, and I learned my lesson. Good skimming, lighting and an RO/DI should be a priority.
 

John@Carline

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I kind of think that the "ozone is dangerous" ideal is a bit overrated, especially if you have and controller and are competent to its use, along with already having "the basics". I agree that UV is a 100% waste of money, but a properly run ozone with many benefits seems to intrigue me, enough so where I would be willing to try one.

Benefits from what I have read:

1. Helps in denitrification process
2. Helps clear up water(get rid of yellowing effect)
3. Can "turbo charge" your skimmer, making waste removal more effective.
4. Can greatly aid in reducing PH fluctuation(great when using in combo with a Ca reactor)
5.Can possibly help with disease control
6. Increases REDOX
Possible negatives:
1. May be "hazardous to humans and animals?Considering how small the units are is it really possible to be hazardous to us???
2.Increases REDOX. (this should not be an issue i would think with a properly set controller)

So I would think that if used properly that this simple devise would be a more positive aspect when used in conjunction with "the basics"which include, lighting,circulation,stability as I would only view it as a good compliment to an already properly set up system.

I would still like to know the difference between the brands, what advantages/disadvantages there are to them and application if possible from someone who is very knowledgeable with hands on concerning these devices.
 

Cruiser

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John@Carline

A 100 to 150 mg/hr unit would be adequate for a 150g tank. Each tank has different bio-loads so actual amount of O3 used is different per tank.

The Ultralife unit looked questionable (IMHO) from the web picture, and haven't seen the other two mfgs mentioned. I always used my old "Sanders" unit
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Ozone can easily be attached to either a venturi or beckett driven protein skimmer.
In the beckett system, just connect the ozone output to the air chamber input or where the bskimmer is drawing air from. This is the same for the venturi systems, just connect the O3 ouput to the venturi air input.

Use ozone safe tubing between the device and skimmer, as regular airline tubing will react with the ozone, reducing the amount of O3 reaching the protien skimmer. To get the best performance the air should be drawn over a dessicant to remove moisture before it enters the generating device.

O3 can be toxic to all aquarium livestock!
However beneficial O3 levels can easily be
maintained with ORP monitor, ORP Controller, or basic aquarium monitoring methods
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O3 will greatly increase skimmer effeciency, clarify / polish water, and increase the tanks ability to handle waste spikes (probably get flamed for that statement
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).
 

Cruiser

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John@Carline

I wouldn't exactly say that UV is a waste of Money
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They just need to be properly calculated for that particular system, and adequately maintained with bulb replacement.

Just Ozone beats them hands down for aquarium display systems.
 

Cruiser

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John@Carline

Majority of ozone generators sold for the aquarium industry are heading to the UV type, which are good units with minimal failures. Electrical discharge generators require a bit more preventative maintenance
as the reaction chambers needs to be cleaned periodically.

Personally, if they look to be well made, no exaggerations made by mfgr, simple quality product generally works. The sanders unit I use produces O3 by elec. discharge and uses a rheostat to adjust O3 output (probably not that accurate, but, I use tank parameters to dose rather then dial indicator).

The dessicant used is an industry standard for air compressors, vacuum pumps, labratories, etc. Could be purchased at Grainger, McMasterCarr, etc. The hardest part is making a holding device for the dessicant that fits your system, i.e. cabinet,etc. You really don't have to have the dessicant, it just helps to produce a greater concentration of O3 for UV wave energy used - i.e. if the dial states 10 mg/hr you probably get 7 mg/hr without dessicant (approx.)

You need an air pump, air dryer (y/n), generator, O3 resistant tubing, (lets get anal) O3 resistant pvc / plastic fittings to connect to skimmer
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John@Carline

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Cruiser , if I get an ozone gnerator, and already have a Venturi/beckett skimmer, then I wont need an air pump I will presume, but an air dryer??I cant find one online, what are they, what do they look like?? Typical prices?Do you have a link to where u got your setup??I already have a controller,and ozone resistant tubing, along with a venturi skimmer, so I take it that all I need is the dryer??Along with the ozone unit itself, which kind to get, they have a UV tube style(Ultralife),a discharge unit(red sea), and ozoteck makes a cold plasma discharge unit, whats the advantages to each if any, easiest to use, some say they are made specifically for "humid" environments, so would I still need a dryer?? Thanx
 

Cruiser

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John

Ozone generators require the use of an air pump to supply air, they cannot physically draw in ambient air
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Try searching under "desiccant dryers" used in vacuum and air handling industries. You want a silica gel based desiccant. They make / sell laboratory grade desiccants.
(I get mine from friend in a biotec firm).

The air dryer is just a prefilter (remember in HS/College science lab classes, the glass bowl and lid desiccator - lid secured with grease, and little pink/purple/white pellets inside). Mine is construted of acrylic, and air enters one side of a horizontal tube, and exits the other side. The desiccant extracts moisture from the air. Desiccants can be bought that change color as they are used
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Desiccant dryers can be found for under $100, might be hard to adapt them to fit under aquarium stand. Best bet is to make your own! (if you can't get one / make your own, running without the dryer won't really hurt the unit, just a small reduction in
efficiency
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).

The Red Sea (no affiliation) unit looked like a nice unit. The ultralife unit just doesn't look well made. Couldn't find a link to Ozotech, but the cold plasma generation is a good method, might be costly
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The claim by "Red Sea" about humid environment, I took as the electronics are housed in an humid / moisture resistant housing. To function optimally it would still require dry air.

I wouldn't use the controller as the controlling device for at least 4 to 6 months (Just being cautious, as each persons aquarium skill level is different - not trying to be demeaning John). The reason being that O3 is highly reactive - oxidizes immediately, so you don't want to inadvertantly cause a disaster, leading to further misconceptions-horror of the "evil" ozone radical!

You need to gradually increase the Ozone concentration in the aquarium
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Personally, I would set-up the ozone generator to the protien skimmer, and set the O3 concentration to 5 mg/hr. I would then observe the tank / skimmer for 3 to 5 days, and then increase the O3 concentration by 5 mg/hr, review tank / skimmer, repeat.

I would use your controller with ORP probe to monitor tank.

Once you got the tank ORP to 375 (NSW averages 375mv) or greater, I would then allow the controller to monitor / regulate the ozone generator to maintain that level.

Hope that helps
 

John@Carline

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Cruiser: http://www.marine-monsters.com has the ozotech units, and yes they are a bit pricey, but they are the ones I was leaning towards, with the red sea the 2nd choice. But was still hoping you could do a bit more research and tell me the advantages between these 2 as the ozotech is a lot more expensive than the red sea.

AS far as an air pump goes, are you sure I would need one?? Both the Venturi and Beckett skimmers suck in quite a bit of oxygen on their own as it is right now, I would think they would be capable of drawing air into the ozone units themselves.

I would assume that the ozone generator would be set up to go directly into the venturis/becketts air input, or should i drill a seperate hole somewhere??

I have an aquacontrollerII right now, the ORP probe is already up and running, but my tank is already measuring between 380-410, so where would I set a cutoff point?? Also doesnt the ozone help increase ph too?? Should i set it in tangent with my Ca reactors cut off point???

Also what is the total unit size of ozone generator I should get for a tank with the total volume of about 150g of water??

thanx Cruiser!
 

srbayless

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Howdy,

Honestly? Don't get either. They are a waste of money, especially the UV filter. I had one on my tank when I started out, and it didn't prevent algae blooms or fish from getting sick.

I tried using an coralife Ozone unit for about a week. I didn't like the idea of using a product that could wipe out the tank if not watched properly. Ozone does have true benefits, the major one being that is reduces the organics in your tank.

I personally prefet to get rid of the organics with an efficient skimmer. I have yet to hear any horror stories about a protein skimmer poisoning a tank
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If you are dead set on getting either a UV or Ozone generator, go for the Ozone and controller unit.

Good luck,

Scott.
 

idua

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RUaBatfish2 I already have all necessary (and unnecessary
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) equipment and now wanted to explore other options and possibly find something that will make my work easier and maybe even improve my results.

John@Carline I was looking at the UltraLife as well but since no one seems to have their product I am not sure about it. If you find anything interesting please post on the forum or you can drop me an email but I hope we can get few more responses as I am sure there are people using these.

Cruiser thanks for all the info. I think I am gonna go with ozonizer, as long as I can find a good product of course.
 

Cruiser

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John

After seeing the ozotech model on the web, I remember seeing this unit 2 years ago in trade magazines, and remembered thinking thats a great unit with functional features, but out of my price range at the time
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.

One of the major factors that makes the "Cold Plasma Corona Discharge" generator better then the "UV" or "Electrical discharge" units is the reduction of heat - or less heat produced during the reaction process.

The CPCD method uses an electrical charge to excite a gas enclosed in the reaction tube, which is converted into a plasma (~electro-conductive gas), and the electrical field generated(corona)around the reaction tube produces enough intensity to convert 02 to 03. (Choice 2 produces ozone by simply producing an electrical arc through air in
reaction chamber creating 03). This process greatly reduces heat, and can produce a higher molecular concetration per volume of air, then either of the two other units. The higher the temperature the faster Ozone degrades.

I think you are right regarding the air volume drawn into the "Beckett" skimmers.
There will be some friction losses in the length of tubing btw PS & Generator.

Yes the 03 output is connected to the beckett skimmer air intake port. An additional air inlet port with valve, would allow additional control-regulation over 02/03 mixture, which is what I'm doing with my PS, if I find the time to finish it
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!
If you add the extra inlet, put it on top of the beckett air intake chamber if possible.

Either the 150 or 250 units are capable of handling 150g tank, but, for difference in price, I would get the 250 unit.

Now the two tough questions
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I have an aquacontrollerII right now, the ORP probe is already up and running, but my tank is already measuring between 380-410, so where would I set a cutoff point??Since you have good readings and each tanks bioload is different, it would be hard to give a definitive cut-off point (yeah, I know cheap way out
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).

Personally, if 380 was the lowest value I noticed over a period of days, I would then set the cut-off point at 385, as I want to gradually increase as I monitor the tank population (don't mean to sound like a broken record, but caution prevents disasters - just like kalkwater, you don't just dump in the complete dose). Other factors that make it hard to give a definitive number are reaction time btw 03/H20 in skimmer, length-diameter of skimmer, etc.

Also doesnt the ozone help increase ph too?? Ok, I will get flamed for this!, but YES it helps stabilize the pH, maybe a slight increase. Since pH is based on the concentration of (H+)*(OH-)/HOH, the demand for either H+/OH- is reduced due to the oxidative nature of the water (0- conc), a very simplistic description, but with the reduced dissolved organics, organic compunds, etc., the biological / chemical oxygen demand is fulfilled before it affects the (H)(OH)/(HOH). I hope that made sense as its late
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Oh, yeah - don't forget to run the skimmer effluent through activated carbon.

Joe
 

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