Help Ich

[Flashy2003]

I need some serious help. About two and a half weeks ago I noticed Ich on my powder brown tang. I went out bought some kick ich and started. At first he looked better than got worse. Was looking better and then died. Today was the 20th day of running the kick ich. I came home today and my male clown now has it. I had to do a water change so now what. He looked great yesterday and now he is a mess. Whats is going on. How can I stop this disaster. I don't have a hospital tank. And I have corals in my display> Any help would be great.

 

[CrAzY cOrAlS]

try feeding garlic, or sorry to say might all die if you cant get them help, the best thing at this point is get them out or hope they live through it, and if they all die keep your tank free of fish for about 6 to 8 weeks to be safe.

 

[jaa1456]

Kich-Ich is garbage and does not work, None of that reef safe crap does. The reason he looked better is due to the Ichs life cycle. Once it was on the fish it was able to multiply and then fall off the fish into the cysts form and then it comes back stronger.

 

[Flashy2003]

Hospital

I just picked up a 20 gal. Im gonna make some water. Do another 15 gallon water change. And use the water I pull out of my display to set up the 20 for a temp hospital. Now whats the best copper treatment for it?

 

[petraio]

From seachem just be patient with any copper don't over dose! Cupramine is the name good luck"!

 

[oonycxwilloo]

You can try treating with copper in the hospital tank or try going hypo.

 

[rkaragozler]

I would only do hypo, I am running a hospital tank for a friend now with hypo and lost only 2 of the fish that was very badly infected. remember need to do at least 15% water change daily as not to build up amonia, in a hospital tank.

 

[exodus32]

Check your water parameters. FIsh get ich due to stress or low immune system... Ich is always present in the tanks, and fish get them when they don't feel well. It's like a common cold for people. Best way is to use Garlic (such as Garlic Guard) onto the fish food before you put it in the tank. GOod luck!

 

[marrone]

Check your water parameters. FIsh get ich due to stress or low immune system... Ich is always present in the tanks, and fish get them when they don't feel well. It's like a common cold for people. Best way is to use Garlic (such as Garlic Guard) onto the fish food before you put it in the tank. GOod luck!

No ich is a parasite and fish get it when it's present in the tank, regardless if they're stressed out or have low immune systems or don't feel well. Water quality doesn't have anything to do with it. You can have great water quality and introduce a fish or something that has ich and there is a good chance that your fish may come down with ich.

Garlic helps fish build up their immune system, it's also a good thing that they're eating too, but it doesn't kill the ich. You need to treat the tank and fish to kill off the ich.

 

[NanoAquatic]

Ich is a disease caused by parasites Cryptocaryn or Oodinium.

 

[Domboski]

Maybe you'll find this helpful: http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/82322-ich-other-parasites.html

I personally would not treat tangs with copper.

 

[FocusReefing]

I just got some fish that have been in qt since I got them 3 days ago. They are showing sign of ich. Ive also been reading a lot and ich is a parasite that is not always present in tanks but brought in by infected specimens. Without a host the parasites dies in about a months time. Copper is highly stressful to fish especially new additions. Most seasoned aquarist prefer the hypo salinity treatment as it is less stressful because the low salinity. The fishes body work less on expelling excess salt and more on repairing it self. I would advise reading alot before dosing copper.

 

[marrone]

I personally would not treat tangs with copper.

I have no problems treating tangs with copper, never had a problem and unless they're very small, like the nickel size Hippo tangs they sell, it shouldn't be a problem. You want to make sure you get a good copper and a good test kit and treat at the correct level. If you treat at the correct level the tang should be fine.

In some case copper is the only thing that is going to work, and even then it mayn't as some strains of ich are impossible to kill unless you use high levels of copper. Very important to QT all you fish for 4 - 6 weeks, or longer if possible, before placing them into your DT. In that time you should see signs of diseases, then you can treat the fish. In the end you want to not only save the fish but to protect your DT.

As for hyposalinity, it does work but only on ich, so if your fish has something other than ich, it's not going to work.

 

[Domboski]

I have no problems treating tangs with copper, never had a problem and unless they're very small, like the nickel size Hippo tangs they sell, it shouldn't be a problem. You want to make sure you get a good copper and a good test kit and treat at the correct level. If you treat at the correct level the tang should be fine.

In some case copper is the only thing that is going to work, and even then it mayn't as some strains of ich are impossible to kill unless you use high levels of copper. Very important to QT all you fish for 4 - 6 weeks, or longer if possible, before placing them into your DT. In that time you should see signs of diseases, then you can treat the fish. In the end you want to not only save the fish but to protect your DT.

As for hyposalinity, it does work but only on ich, so if your fish has something other than ich, it's not going to work.

I have a Lamotte kit and treat at the proper levels testing daily. My experience with Powder Browns, Chocolate Tangs and others like Powder Blues has not been good with Copper. Survival rate is almost 75% better with hypo but that's just my experience.

 

[THEDLO]

copper kills the fungus in there stomach that tangs use to digest algae, exposing them too long to copper i bad. id go with the hyposalinity cause its much safer.

 

[marrone]

copper kills the fungus in there stomach that tangs use to digest algae, exposing them too long to copper i bad. id go with the hyposalinity cause its much safer.

Once again, hyposalinity only works on ich, there is a good chance it's not ich that you're fighting. Copper is a proven killer of ich and other parasites, and it does work without killing the fish. You want to treat for 2 weeks after you see the last spore fall off the fish, or usually 4 weeks in total. In that time the tang will be fine.

 

[marrone]

I have a Lamotte kit and treat at the proper levels testing daily. My experience with Powder Browns, Chocolate Tangs and others like Powder Blues has not been good with Copper. Survival rate is almost 75% better with hypo but that's just my experience.

That's a good kit, I think someone here told you about it

The tangs that you listed are very hard to keep even without treating them with anything. PB & PT have a very high mortality rate even when they come in great condition, which usually isn't the case. Anything can and will stress them out causing them to die, even just placing them in a tank. So its probably not the copper directly that is causing them to die but the fish and the condition that it came in.

Also you need to take into account where you're getting your fish from. If your LFS is getting them from a wholesaler then the fish has been treated already for a number of different parasites, and for the most part what you're seeing at the store are the hardier of the ones, as the weaker ones most likely died along the way to the LFS. Now if they're getting them directly from a diver, well that's a whole other thing. It's very likely, even probably, that the fish wasn't treated for anything or treated very little. The fish is probably already heavily stressed out and anything that stresses it out more could cause it to die.

It's also very important to slowly build up the copper over a number of days, this will give the fish time to adjust to it.

 

[Domboski]

That's a good kit, I think someone here told you about it

The tangs that you listed are very hard to keep even without treating them with anything. PB & PT have a very high mortality rate even when they come in great condition, which usually isn't the case. Anything can and will stress them out causing them to die, even just placing them in a tank. So its probably not the copper directly that is causing them to die but the fish and the condition that it came in.

Also you need to take into account where you're getting your fish from. If your LFS is getting them from a wholesaler then the fish has been treated already for a number of different parasites, and for the most part what you're seeing at the store are the hardier of the ones, as the weaker ones most likely died along the way to the LFS. Now if they're getting them directly from a diver, well that's a whole other thing. It's very likely, even probably, that the fish wasn't treated for anything or treated very little. The fish is probably already heavily stressed out and anything that stresses it out more could cause it to die.

It's also very important to slowly build up the copper over a number of days, this will give the fish time to adjust to it.

Agreed but my survival rate is based on experience over time and getting the fish from the same sources (usually. The only excpetion is fish from other members). So I can say confidently, based on my experience and systems, hypo seems to have a significantly higher survival rate (nearly 75% higher for PBTs especially) than using copper. Therefore I prefer to use that method. Unfortunately hypo takes six weeks versus 2-4 with copper. If someone has a fish covered with ich, I tell them to go for the copper method since hypo is not going to help as quickly as copper.

As with anything in this hobby, its all personal preference and experience. Frankly, since you recommended the lamotte kit to me, I wouldn't recommend anyone using copper unless they have a kit of that stature. Also, I tell people all of the time not to use copper if you cannot monitor the levels daily. If the copper is not kept at the recommended ppm for two full weeks, ich is not going to be killed and as soon as the fish is introduced to a non-copper environment there is going to be another outbreak.

 

[marrone]

I also recommend using Copper Power, which is a lot less toxic to fish. You can easily go to levels of .5 to .6 without any effect on fish, which is way over the .25 level need to kill ich. It's also very stable and once at the correct level it stay there, so you don't need to keep adding more copper. And yes you do need to keep it at level, or it wouldn't work, but the same is true for Hypo and for that matter most medication.

 

[THEDLO]

Once again, hyposalinity only works on ich, there is a good chance it's not ich that you're fighting. Copper is a proven killer of ich and other parasites, and it does work without killing the fish. You want to treat for 2 weeks after you see the last spore fall off the fish, or usually 4 weeks in total. In that time the tang will be fine.

huh? thats funny cause last we spoke you said that fresh/brackish water doesn't do anything to ich, and now it does? i mean granted i was suggesting no salt at all and making it more into a dip, but suddenly a "table spoon" of salt and a longer exposure time make all the difference? weird.