damn ich!!

[jsvokowest]

well it was going too smoothly for my type of luck.
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
no3 10
ph 8.2
salinity 1.021
temp 80
alk 2.9-3.6

2 ocelarris
1 hippo blue tang
4 cleaner shrimp
1 cave goby
8 turbo snails
75 lbs live rock
1 plate coral
1 zooanthid
ok guys and gals so now i am learning lessons the hard way
one day after i got the clowns (3 weeks) they both got 4 dots each on the right fin same spot same day. gave them a freshwater dip and raised temp. plus lowered the salinity. added the shrimp to hopefull aid in the situation but they wont go near the shrimp. they eat fine and are friendly,curious etc. non stop activity. been mixing garlic in the food and one seemed to get cleaned up quite a bit but "marlin" just got a rash breakout yesterday. the tang hangs out with them and now has 1 white spot on the fin.goby is clean. was told by the lfs to give them a methalyene blue dip which i did today. managed to catch the tang with not to much of an isssue. they handled the dip well and are doing ok with eating etc. the water is changed 10% every week religously. sunday the tank heated up due to the heat but never has been over 82. stopped over at fishtown at they are supporting this kick ich stuff. i had been over this for the whold day and the bottle still stands on my table unused. fish were all clean when i got them and i will not quit on the commitment of keeping them safe. question is do i leave them alone, kick ich the whole tank, or retrun the kick it and just take care of what i should have initially done in the first place and get the qt tank. i stupidly took for granted the cleanliness of the store and fish. i think for the 50 bucks for the kick it i could get a 10 gall starter kit and nip this now. and qt livestock in the future. but what of the ich in the tank and the other inhabitants. which is leading me to trying this kick ich. at a real loss and under immense pressure to "fix marlin daddy" would treat the qt with copper of course what else would i need or what should i do. thanks
p.s. was also told ich is in everytank. find that hard to believe as there must be a way by leaving the tank fallow there would be no hosts right?
tomorrow is decision day so i hope to get some advice before i do more damage.

 

[woodman]

friend got same problem.
GOOD LOUCK!
ps let me know want decision you chose.

 

[ZANYMASTER]

A QT tank would help.Most LFS stores treat their tanks with Copper anyway.That kick ich is a slow long process and does not work.

 

[jsvokowest]

what about the tomites or what ever they are called that are in the tank. how would i do away with taht

 

[jsvokowest]

thanks woodman is your friend stil dealing with it or did he/ she come up with something

 

[wallysworld]

If the fish are eating and seem fine I wouldn't do anything. The cleaner shrimp may take a few weeks to settle in before they start cleaning. But even then I see ich on my juvi hippo every couple of days then its gone. Stressed fish get ich in much the same way we get sick when stressed.
I truely believe more people have killing fish trying to prevent ich than ich itself.
Although I think a QT tank is important! But no so much to avoid ich. Lots of other things a lot worse!

My experience is to feed my fish well (food that comes from the ocean not some pond or lake) make sure everyone has a hidding spot and do more frequent water changes. This is all I have ever done to combat ich and it has worked.

jMy2cs

Walter

 

[jsvokowest]

thanks i am leaning toward natures power as well although i don;t like the way the one clown looked. i am just can;t bring myself to throw that stuff in the tank would a 10 gall be enough for the two little clowns and tang only about 2 in max each. do i need air or just the filter trickle. seems like when you walk into a lfs for this they want you to throw anything and everything into you tank. got a ton of nooks for the clowns to hide in but they prefer out in the open alongside a coral at night. what about anemones would that help their immune system for this by creasting a thicker mucus? might be talking out of my a** but the cichlids i had for year were just so much easier

 

[jsvokowest]

also need to add it is a 90 gal tank

 

[Dre]

If the fish is eating thats a good sign. Filter pads and a sterilizer my also help kill the free flouting ick .They go through three stages that's why they are so hard to get rid of .I'v used kick ick and copper with no positive results.I'v used fresh water dips and the use of a U.V sterilizer on my 120 gal fish tank with better results.Good luck.

 

[Dre]

Cleaner wrasses and small heniochus pick paracites off my fish including ick but unfortunatly the wrasses don't live very long.

 

[KathyC]

Return the Kick Ich - it's useless according to many who have used it.
Get the QT and get your fish into it and treat it with copper - Copper Power is an excellent brand. Follow the directions on the bottle and also pick up a copper test kit so that you know you are dosing correctly.

The only way to eradicate ich from the main tank is to leave it fishless for approximately 6 weeks (you are correct in what you said about no hosts )

Best to cover the sides and back of the QT - can paint it or cover it with dark paper as it provides security for them. Add a PVC pipe or 2 for the fish to hide in. You'll need to stay on top of the parameters in the QT since it will attempt to cycle itself, so be sure to have an ammonia kit on hand to check daily and do daily water changes. By using the copper test kit you can bring the level of copper back to the proper amount each time you change the water in there as that is critical. You'll need an airstone and a small power filter to keep things clean. Garlic is good for soaking the food to keep the fishes eating.

 

[wallysworld]

UV is another good idea, forgot about that one.
The anemone is not going to help. I purchased a Magnifcia with 3 perc's three days later all 3 perc's were dead. They had ich all over them, plus the stress of being moved again they had no chance. The ich spead quickly to my Rpyal gramma and Salifin tang. My goby's never showed signs and a little research told me why. They have one of the thickest slime coats. Anyway this was in a 30gal reef. I did nothing but add a UV. It took about 6 or 7 weeks before they looked much better. The point is I never had a fish that was established in my tank(6 months -+) die of ich. Stress kills most of the time ich is just a biproduct. I actually witnessed a yellow tang drop dead in a few seconds after being scared to death.
One more thing I noticed something interesting with my Sailfin. He would actually go into a strong flow and start breathing heavy? Not sure what he was doing? He only did it when he had ich. Maybe they know how to help them selves? Maybe it was his way of trying to clean out his gills?

btw how's their breathing? That and eating is what I would watch more than anything else.

Good luck.

 

[jsvokowest]

the breathing is fine which i am watching constantly for gill infections. i think i am heading out the door and getting the qt tank.thanks will keep you posted.

 

[masterswimmer]

As Kathy said (and you have too), run the tank fallow for 6 weeks with ALL fish in the QT.

Make the sides of the QT dark (as per Kathy), a heater, a small powerhead, an airstone and a couple of pieces of pvc. Regular water changes on the QT and you should be set to go in 6 weeks.

Best of luck,
Russ

 

[jsvokowest]

thank all i am returning the kick ich tomorrow i just can;t seem to bring my self to dump it in. gave the fish some stress coat and plan on a big water change tomorrow along with hooking up the uv sterilizer i picked up today. figured that would aid in killing that stuff a little more thoroughly.gonna run it for a full two weeks and then only for 1/2 days at about 150 to 200 gph.fish are still eating away and frolicking about so i hope i can pull them through this. also qt is gonna happen hell or high water. but i want the fish to settle a little after the methylene bath. figure if i change the atmosphere completely again i will stres them even more not to mention copper. will keep you guys posted and thanks

 

[KathyC]

While UV lights can be a benefit in dealing with parasites, please keep in mind they are not a cure all for ich. The ich parasites don't tend to swim around in the water column, they fall to the substrate, so the UV is only effective against the ones that actually are pulled in and pass the light.

If they are eating well and acting normally now, I would take the opportunity to move them into a QT, otherwise you aren't going to get rid of the ich entirely, they will come and go as they continue their life cycle.
You also know no idea how badly the fishes gills are infected and that is where the ich does it's killing...

Thanks Russ - I forgot to add the heater to that list! :hug:

 

[jsvokowest]

i understand and i am going to use the qt for the rest of the life of the tank so it would never wind up as a bad investment. think it is better to take this on full steam now and learn from it rather than losing these fisah. granted they are not the most expensive but that was never the issue. would i be safe leaving the cleaner shrimpe snails and the goby in the tank or leave the invert in and all fish out.including the unaffected goby and the tang with the only 1 spot.

 

[jsvokowest]

last issue as for the qt is 10 gall enough for most fish or do i need to go higher right away

 

[masterswimmer]

would i be safe leaving the cleaner shrimpe snails and the goby in the tank or leave the invert in and all fish out.including the unaffected goby and the tang with the only 1 spot.

The fish, affected or unaffected MUST BE REMOVED. They are a potential host for the ich cyst. The display tank MUST BE fallow. Ich does not host on inverts. Your shrimp are ok.

Russ

 

[jsvokowest]

so russ i guess i would need at least a minimum of 20 gall due to there being 4 fish all about 2 inches a piece what is the usual size for an acceptable qt tank