ICk or some sortof whit spot........

[atvtony]

Hello All ....
Let me start first of all by telling you all i have done this for over 15 years and i have never seen anything like what i have going on now....

Tank Setup
40 GAllon LOng
Metal Halide W/Actininc 2/40s
[2]175W halides
the tank has been setup for just about a year now
its first inhabitants were almost from day 1
a coral beuty
2 tomato clowns
1 seargent major
1 choco chip star
2 bubble tip anemonies
1 extrmel;y LARGE colt Coral

PH 8.25 last checked
0 nitrites
0 nitrates

salinity currently 1.021 specific gravity (dropped it when this problem occured) was 1.023
temp 78 degrees verry little varience
4 inches areagonite base
i tried to add a yellow tang to the mix about 3 mos ago
i had no problem with anything in the tank at that time except for the growing pains of lots of red and brown algae
(that is all gone now )
i have lots of green hair algae growing and now some more macro green algae has started to take root

anyways the yellow tang that my wife had gotten me never did well
it had developed white spots its stomach was sunken in from day 1
and i figured it just wasnt gonna make it
i fed the entire tank garlic extract
and it seemed to help a little but would reoccur and th eyellow tang finaly succomed to the disease in about 2 weeks
about 1 week later in noticed my clownfish had the spots then my 2cd clownfish
then my seargent major
it started killing everything in the tank that was a fish
finnaly they all died
so ileft the tank with just 1 starfish and NO fish
for 3 weeks then i bought 3 blue damsels to see if all was clear
2 of them got it the first day and died the second day
the third one didnt seem to get it at all
in fact it still does not have a trace of the spots anywhere....
id like to call it ICH from here out bu tit may not be....
i tried GREENEX and KICK ICH and i saturated th etank with bolth of these
seeing no diffence in my corals or anemonies... they didnt mind the medicine at all
i removed my carbon and my polybio for th etreatment period
i ran another 3 weeks with just the 1 damsel
and it was doing fine (AND STILL IS)
I waited a very long time to get a hippo tang and it cam e in i had the pet store hold it for me for 2 weeks
i picked it up from them it was as healthy as a horse
i threw it in the tank with the blue damsel
and the choco starfish....ii wasnt going to but anymore fish till i seen how this worked out
it took about a week but the spots came back!!
this time
i noticed something....
in the moring as the tank lights just about o go on... tou could watch these whits spots LEAVE the fish and free float in the water... they look like small tic tacs... i have seen these things floating in the tank the whole time i have been having this problem i didnt know what they were till isaw them detach from the fish...they say ICH is microscopic... but these CYSTS (white spots)are not microscopic they are very small but visible white round EGGS??
I have tried a gambit of medicine to clear the tank of this problem nothing works.......can anyone help?? my one blue damsel is totally IMUNE to this... i have even seen him EATING the CYSTS .....
All my live rock and corals and anemonies are doing great!!
the HAIR algae was under control when i had TANGS to eat it...but now its grown quite wild
i mention this just to give a you a complete picture of the tank
there are 2 filters i use

1 hang on back wet /dry
1 Swimming Pool Pump located in the basement... with CARBON
1 PRISM HANG ON protein Skimmer ...has kept water pristine for a year now with this sysem
i also occasionally add BI-IONIC 2 part solution to the water
i was adding it religiosly but i stopped when this problem developed
i actually have a TRICKLE DRAIN system set up in the basement to very slowly drain off water which i replace with TAP water (which is VERY VERY GOOD!! around here ... and i let the water sit overnight before adding and i watch salinity ... and keep it balanced.....


So..........having said all of this....

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Nice troll.
No further comment.

David Mohr

 

[atvtony]

ok ill bite whats a troll??
does it EAT ICK??
how is this usefull to anyone??

 

[Anonymous]

Nice troll.
No further comment.

David Mohr

David,

This man is a customer of mine, and he's actually having this problem. He just stopped in today to tell me that he posted this.

It's not a troll. I'm thinking it's a parasitic isopod of some sort, but he posted this in the wrong forum. I'm going to get a mod to move this to general reefkeeping.

Peace,

Chip

 

[Anonymous]

My apologies Chip and atvtony but from the tone of the post it struck me as a troll and I was mistaken.
What atvtony is describing is a clear case of Cryptocaryon irritans. He is seeing the protozoans leaving the host. The lifecycle of these protozoan must be interrupted by letting the tank go fallow anywhere from 30 to 60 days. Also it may be done by tearing down the tank and sterilizing everything ( glass, rock, substrate, filters, etc.. As long as he has the one damsel in there while it is not showing signs it is a carrier of the disease.
Another way to treat is hyposalinity but is not safe with corals and invertebrates and should be done in a quarentine tank.
While he treated with Greenex and Kick Ich, treatments with these must be used multiple times as they will not kill the parasites on the fish only the free swimming stages of it..
I would say this whole problem was brought on by adding the Yellow Tang to his tank which was clearly in distress and merely put stress on the whole system.

Regards,
David Mohr

 

[atvtony]

apology aceepted!
I was a hoping a Troll could be purchased and put in the tank till marrilion told me what you were refering too....
Anyways i spent about 3 hours reading the WEB this AM on crypto irratins
i am not sure this is what i have as everything i read says the white spot is actually fish mucus and that the protozoa is inside the fish's skin and cant be seen..
well if thats true and i dont knoiw that it is... then i have somthing else
becuase they are almost perfectly round white balls ocasionally they can be seen in the watercolumnm although they dont swim.. the y float and from a distance might look like an air bubble (same size) untill you get A closer look and realize that its solid...
Marrilion suggested a cleaner wrasse threw him in yestereay...
he has developed 2 spots...and is eating GOD KNOWS WHAT??? all the time
many people claim that it is always present in a reef tank
i think they may be right ... but i think i have a population explosion that needs to be tamed....
i have done this many years and i have had ick come and go with no treatment whatsoever......
but his has got me good............
thanks
tony

 

[Anonymous]

There are 3 stages in the life cycle of the protozoan. When it's on the fish ( trophont ) you will see the white spot which is where the protozoan is under the skin ( at this stage they can not be killed ). It will spend 5 to 7 days feeding on the skin and when it matures it becomes a single cell ( tomont ) and will swim in the tank for about 12 to 18hrs until a sticky cyst wall is secreted and this will attach to the substrate, rocks, glass, etc. These cells in each cyst will divide up to 200 times and produce new parasites ( tomites ). This will take a period of about 3 to 28 days depend on the temperature of the water ( the warmer it is the faster it will be ). These produce cilia which allow them to bore through the cyst wall and emerge into the water these are called ( theronts ). These will only survive a few hours unless they find a new host and these will bore under the skin and begin to grow. During these last 2 stages when they are not infecting a host they can effectly be killed.
Now of course all this could be mute because we can only go by what your describing not by a picture but this still sounds like Crypto. Now if this is in fact a parasitic copepod, a Cleaner Wrasse will help though copper treatments are usually called for. Since your one Damsel is unaffected I doubt it would be a parasitic copepod as they don't discriminate.

Regards,
David Mohr

 

[Kevin1000]

I think it is pretty clear that you have ich in your tank - you may also have a parasitic isopod as well.

Heres a link which has pictures of various parasitic isopods & other nasties - might find one that looks familiar.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/rs/index.htm

As far as the ich is concerned I would leave the tank fallow for 5 weeks - 3 weeks is not long enough.

Hope this helps.

 

[atvtony]

cleaner wrasse spots have dissapeared and he is eating constantly from the water column.....you cannot see what it is he is eating.........
blue damsel still doing fine....
question://....if the parasite is unable to use the blue damsel as a host
how would removing him effect the cycle ??? it wouldnt right??
since this fish is not part of the process.....??
also the choco chip star has no relationship to this process either right??

 

[Kevin1000]

Not sure about your reference to your cleaner wrasse - if you think it is eating ich you are mistaken -thats urban legend.

Ich will survive in your show tank for five weeks - any fish put in the tank during that period will sustain the ich. If you stuck the damsel in the show tank within 5 weeks of removing the other fish then you must assume that fish also has ich. Simple rule when dealing with ich - if one fish has it you must assume all fish have it.

You must keep your show tank fish free for at least five weeks from the date the last fish left the tank.

Heres an ich link

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevo ... neich.html

 

[atvtony]

interesing article on the subject and i think it reenforces my belief that it is possible for a fish to build an immunity to it...
its probably like a vaccine a small infestation will allow the fish to build some antibody to fight off infection
just like humans are given weakened viruses to from vaccines
i think i have one damsel that is imune......
the cleaner showed signs of infection the first day he was in the tank
but the second day the spots were gone from him and so far have not returned
i think next time i go for fish i will not by any tangs as this is where this whole problem happened they seem to be ich magnets and once it takes a foothold on a tang it grows in strength enough to infect the other fish
my clownfish was the last surviving memebr of the original group and the last to get infected....i will probably try a pair of clowns for the first TEST subjects ....but not for a long time.........

no matter how much you think u know....there is always more to learn....

 

[atvtony]

cleaner wrasse doing fine...... no more tic tacs visible in tank as of yesterday
i intoduced 2 percula clownfish
NO SPOTS and NO Trouble.......so far
although they dont seem to know what an anemonie is for yet....
they are bickering but not fighting...
all tank inhabitants show no problems at this time....
it is my personal belief that the problem is brought on by the introduction of TANGS... they seem to attract parasites but i know TANGS can be added becuase I had them years ago......for YEARS....without problems....
i wont try to reintroduce tangs for quite a while.....
Thanks to all who responded to this tradgedy so far i think were OK now.......

TONY

 

[Terry B]

If you don't quarantine all new fish for 3+ weeks BEFORE placing them in the display then you will probably have more troubles. If you have parasites in your display tank and you did not leave the tank without any fish (as in zero) for at least 30 days then your fish will probably be infected again very soon.
Terry B