Sick Fish - part 2

[KathyC]

Remember the stress you were feeling...? New clean water never harmed a fish...so yes, I'd keep up the water changes since there is no skimmer on the QT.

Is that Amquell PLUS you're using? ..you won't get a proper ammonia test reading while using it..it skews the results and will read no ammonia. Why take the chance?

You might want to consider a smaller tank for a QT going forward. 25g is a lot to medicate if you ever find yourself in that position.

 

[fluidimagery]

I honestly still need to pick up an Ammonia test, I'll stop by the LFS today since I'll be nearby.

I'm not sure if it's the "plus" version, I'm not at home. I guess you recommend not using it at all?

I actually bought the 30g since I have 4 4" fish in there I figured the 10g that I had would be a little tight with 3 full grown anthias and a 4" angel.

 

[KathyC]

Regular Amquel is a chlorine neutralizer...Amquel Plus also 'locks' ammonia...no I wouldn't use it since you shouldn't allow ammonia to form in the first place. IMO the only use for this product would be transporting a fish over a long distance/time.
Do we really know that once we burn the gill tissue on our fish from high ammonia readings ..if they ever fully recover from it?

As far using a 30 for a QT tank...hopefully you are only needing to use it QT new, young (small) fish. I only mentioned as the price of the meds can be very high. Good for you though - the more water the better! Wish I had the space to keep one around..course I'd fill it with fish in a heartbeat...lol

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

I wouldn't use either in the display tank but in a QT tank it might be useful (not the plus but the regular)

 

[fluidimagery]

I might have jinxed myself...

Tonight when I was doing my water change I noticed those white spots back on the Male Mandarin's head. He has been eating and looking much better since I pulled him out of the tank and put him in QT.

I see some other spot looking things on my Angel's fins but it's hard to see since he won't sit still.

After taking a pic at an angle it looks worse than it looks head on, so I'm not sure if the light has made it look worse than it is... decide for yourself.

This is what I saw the night before I went nuts and pulled them out of the DT. It'll probably be gone tomorrow again...

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I might have jinxed myself...

Tonight when I was doing my water change I noticed those white spots back on the Male Mandarin's head. He has been eating and looking much better since I pulled him out of the tank and put him in QT.

I see some other spot looking things on my Angel's fins but it's hard to see since he won't sit still.

After taking a pic at an angle it looks worse than it looks head on, so I'm not sure if the light has made it look worse than it is... decide for yourself.

This is what I saw the night before I went nuts and pulled them out of the DT. It'll probably be gone tomorrow again...

Is this the same fish you have in the first two picture of post #9. If so, I am sure, it's infected.

Also, I think I saw you were asking whether mandarins will get ich somewhere before. They do get ich.

 

[fluidimagery]

Yup, they definately have ich. It covers the Male's body now and both females have it.

I wonder if it's more noticable since last night and today the colors were faded since i quickly turned the light on and snapped pics.

The more important issue... the Display Tank... I think I'm going to wait it out with the fish in there and see if anything pops up. If it's been more than 30 days and none of them show any signs of infection I should be alright no? I'll be in a straight jacket before I rip that thing apart again. So far absolutely no signs of stress and I overfeed so hopefully that's boosting their immune systems.

What should I treat with? I picked up some IO Lifeguard the other day (read up in sick post) but haven't used it. It seems easy enough to use. Says 1 tablet per 10gal for 5 days then do 25% change and use carbon. My one question with that is... I've been doing ~5gal wcs on the 30g QT tank. If I use the lifeguard method should I be cutting up 1/2 a tablet and replace it in the tank when I do the 5gal a wc?

 

[fluidimagery]

So... I got home tonight and guess what!?

No specs... nothing on any fish, not even something I could imagine was a spec so I could treat the tank.

I don't understand... this is fairly similiar to what I saw in the DT before I pulled them out... but that time it was only on the head... then gone the next day.

See for yourself, I just took these:

They all looked like the Male Anthia above this morning before I left for work. My wife said she didn't see any spots when she got home from work at 2:30.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Check the glass, heater, .... to see if you find any small dots that look like the ones that were on the fish during the other day. Check it during the day, night and right after you turn on the light.

The fish does not look happy even though most dots are gone.

 

[fluidimagery]

If I look at him at an angle from behind I can sort of make out some dots that look under his skin.

The bottom is difficult to spot the white dots... I can somewhat make them out.

Should I just treat for ich? It seems like it's 100% there in the pics last night and this morning.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

i am sure it has something on them even on the very first 2 pics in your earlier posts but not sure if those are really ich. The way it hatches out of the fish seems too fast-it's closer to the velvet scenario. But if it's velvet, your fish most likely have been all dead.

 

[fluidimagery]

So, what would you do if you were me?

The IO Lifeguard supposedly cures a myriad of things...

 

[Deanos]

:screama: Fluidimagery: Have you read any of the various articles or threads on ich posted on Manhattan Reefs? Ich parasites go through several stages of life, including falling completely off the host, giving the uninformed aquarist, the thought that he/she has eradicated the disease. Please do additional research on the ailment you are treating for. The amount of information available on the life cycle of [SIZE=-1]Cryptocaryon irritans[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] is voluminous.
[/SIZE]

 

[KathyC]

Fluid..before Deanos pops a blood vessel, please do read up more on ich.

The Lifeguard product is quite new and I am not familiar with it. I don't particularly trust a medication that cures so many ailments and think it would be a safer bet for you to use a copper based product designed specifically for ich.

Please do a water change prior to starting your treatment and follow the directions of the packaging EXACTLY while medicating.

And do get an ammonia test kit!!

BTW - when you are doing your water changes try and siphon the water from the bottom of the tank as that is where the ich will fall to when the cysts (the white things you see on the fishes body) burst. Please keep in mind that EACH of those cysts contains hundreds (if not thousands ..I can't recall) of ich parasites. You can't see the individual ones with your eyes...so don't be fooled by what you can & cannot see visually.

One last thing in case you've forgotten..please add an pump & airstone to the QT tank. Medication is rough on fish and ich does irritate the gills. Give your guys more of a fighting chance


Wingo - how do you know the fish doesn't look happy??

 

[Deanos]

Wingo - how do you know the fish doesn't look happy??

:shhh: Wingo is a Fish Whisperer

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

:shhh: Wingo is a Fish Whisperer

Cramped fin is a big sign

Do you believe many old people can tell if we have liver diease by looking at our face? I think this is called cumulative experience.

When we nimble, we have a problem with the muscle or joint. When we put our hands on our stomach usually we have some problem with that area. When a fish cramp its fin, they had problem. Just that exactly what problem is the question.

 

[fluidimagery]

Deanos, I've read plenty about ich... my confusion comes in where had I have not checked the fish in that twelve hour span I would have never seen this "ich" on them. Luckily I visually caught it and snapped a shot.

Is it common for 4 fish to show no signs of ich... then all of a sudden all 4 be simultaneously be covered in it only for 12 hours... then show absolutely no visual signs of the parasite?

I realize the falling off part is the 3rd stage of the reproduction cycle then they re-create and it exponentially multiply... yadda yadda, but why so damn fast?


My salifert ammonia and copper test are on their way from marine depot since no LFS had them. I bought a bottle of coppersafe from petland and am ready to pull the trigger. I have an airpump but no air stone which I'll get tomorrow. For now I'll add a 2nd pump to the tank.

 

[fluidimagery]

Well, I began treatment last night with the IO Lifeguard...

woke up this morning to see a discolored male anthias, the females are hiding and the angel was on it's side. Absoutely no interest in the food. So I tried pushing him a little to get him to move... swam for a second, next thing I know he's caput :dead1:

So I go to grab my air pump thinking it was lack of oxygen and stick my hand in the water to place the hose and ICE COLD water. MY HEATER DIED!!!! :irked: The tank was at 67.

I put some some smaller heaters in to help raise the temp back up... we'll see what surprises are there when I get home. When am I going to catch a break.

 

[JHOV2324]

Go to Break.com

 

[jhale]

:sad2: poor fish