Return pump and Chiller plumbing question

[jeffvmd]

I need some help with plumbing and I have an Idea for my return pump.
Will adding a tee to split the return line from the Pump work wherein one end is the main return line and one end will have a ball valve to control flow, pass through the chiller and back to display tank?

 

[Fu-Manchu]

How big is your tank and how many gph is your pump?


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[ming]

I suggest putting a ball valve on both outputs, so you can regulate it more accurately.

 

[Reef Fixations]

Could you please let us know your chiller size? (make & model may help)

We also need to know what make and model pump you have.

Also, what is the measurment of your return line from your pump to the top of your tank?

 

[jeffvmd]

My tank is a 12 gallon long Mr aqua rimless tank.
The current pump is a Rio+ 1400 420gph. I'm planning to upgrade to a Rio+1700 642gph.
Initially he Rio 1400 was ok but when I hooked up the chiller directly in line, flow decreased.
I'm planing to get the Rio 1700 and have the outflow split into 2. One will pass the chiller and one for the main inflow in the tank.
I checked gph rating for the chiller and its max is 85gph so the current flow might be too much for the chiller to cool properly but is a bit weak in tank.
Will the 642 GPH split into 2 maintain a good flow for a 36" long tank when a ball valve will regulate a slower flow for the chiller to work properly?

 

[masterswimmer]

Too much resistance with a 'T', use a wye and you'll reap the benefit of more flow to both the chiller and return line (regardless of which pump you use).

Russ

 

[Reef Fixations]

what is the make and model of your chiller?

 

[Reef Fixations]

I dunno which which chiller u have but a lot of chillers lose 6ft +/- of head pressure.

LINK to Rio pump curves:
http://www.vascaaquariumsupply.com/Articles.asp?ID=123

A Rio 1700 (642gph@ 0' of head)

Rio 1700 @6' of head loss is only 180GPH and then you have to go up approx 4 ft into your tank so the pump will be almost at the point of not moving much at all. 6' of loss + 4' of rise= 10' of total head pressure loss and Rio's pump performance chart doesn't reflect any info on flow after 6' of head.

If your chiller only needs 85gph then you may be okay but most chillers need a minimum of 400+gph.

IME a Rio will heat up a system so in that small of a system, your chiller will be turning on much more than you'll want it too and run up your bill not to mention also heat up the temperature of the room.

I had one myself (as a powerhead behind my rock) and in the winter I didn't run a heater on that tank and that tank was a 54G DT w/ 10G in the sump and it maintained 77 degrees F.

You may want to consider a properly sized small pressure rated pump or possibly a water blaster unless you are ok with your tank running warmer or if 85gph is all you need and the Rio is actually able to make that happen.

 

[jeffvmd]

Looks like I missed on a lot of details.
Anyway here is a complete info on the set up hardware.

Tank: Mr. Aqua 12 gallon long rimless 36"x 8" x 9"
Sump: DIY 5.5 gallon with 3 chambers(skimmer,fuge, pump)
Overflow: eshoppes pf nano
Return Pump: Rio+ 1400
Chiller: Aqua Euro CL 85
Stand is about 33" high

I might try the wye approach first and see if that will improve the current flow of the return pipe.
The rio seems to add a little heat to the system. Right now tank temp is -1 degree of ambient temp.
In my other tank, it is usually 2-3 degrees less of the ambient.

 

[Reef Fixations]

According to Aqua Euro's link, you need 160-290 GPH going thru your chiller.

http://www.aquaeurousa.com/Chillers.htm

If Rio is your only choice, it seems that the 3100 or greater would be right. With such a small sump, I imagine that you need a very narrow pump and that's y you're using a Rio? If you can, a Water Blaster 5000 would be a better option. At 10' of head pressure, it will produce 332gph and you need around 290gph according to Aqua Euro's instructions.

Typically the range on a chiller relates to whether or not your are near the minimum or maximum of that chiller's capability. If you are near the chiller's maximum capacity then you will use the slower rate of flow that it calls for because your chiller needs more contact time with the water to be able to cool it down. If the tank is small and you are near the chiller's minimum capacity then you will use the higher flow rate. So being that you only about about 15 gallons in total water volume you should be shooting for the 290gph flow rate that Aqua Euro calls for. If you were maxed out at 50gph then you'd shoot for the 160gph flowrate that they call for.

With the options that you're considering, adding a "Y" fitting may not be an option because the chiller would need full flow of your pump and being that they're on the smaller side, they may not have enough power to push thru the chiller plus the rise of the return line into the tank.

Your overflow maxes out at 200gph tho. Most overflow boxes can be pushed significantly but that is at each aquariast's own risk. I've pushed all of my own HOB overflows by double what they're supposed to handle BUT i've never used a nano overflow box so I have no idea how it will handle it if it all. So if you go with a larger pump that can handle approx 10' of head loss than it would be best to add a ballvalve to it just in case to slow it down if needed.

If your chiller needs over 200gph (almost 300) and your overflow can handle around 200gph and on top of that you want to split your returns than you either won't have enough going thru your chiller, possibly nothing significant going thru your other return (if you split it) or too much flow for your overflow to handle.

If I were dead set on having 2 returns, then I'd at least attempt it and see how it goes knowing that I may have to shut one down if it doesn't pan out. You won't know for sure until you try and you can always compensate with your powerheads.

 

[jeffvmd]

The smallest chiler in that link is the 1/13hp.
This is the aqua euro cl 85 http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewi..._campaign=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_content=ED1131

In the box it also says 40-80gph flow.

I just ordered a wye, clamps and stuff to try and mod the current plumbing and see if it works before I try and get a new pump. It seems a much cheaper alternative for about $7 in parts shipped.

The rio 1400 or 1700 pumps are a good fit for the small sump I have.
I just checked waterblaster and it's a bit too pricey for me as of now.
As for head loss. max for my current set upp will be around 4' so based on the rio1400 chart, it will be at 243gph. Not sure how the split will affect the total gph for 2 inflows.

 

[Reef Fixations]

I googled your model number and that came up. My mistake.

 

[Reef Fixations]

It's 243gph@4'. But the most chillers add 6' of head loss and once u do that and refer to the curve chart, there are no ratings for gph.

Best bet is to call aqua euro and ask them what the head loss is thru your cl-85. It may be less than 6' or more than 6' of head loss. Once u know that number, you'll be able to take that number PLUS the 4' of rise ( which is also head loss ) and then u will know what pump best suits u.