Overflows: Lifereef vs CPR

[Reef Fixations]

I didn't know if your phone was "auto-correcting" and put in the wrong word

 

[Metrokat]

She's excellent and very expensive! Mucho dinero, like heirloom quality.

 

[Reef Fixations]

in that case, I'll pay for the sump..... trust me, with my appetite I'll be sure to be on the winning end of that deal

To be sure that this can't be misconstrued as a contract I want to go on record as saying... I"M ONLY KIDDING =) but seriously tho.... nothing beats amazing cooking done by somene's Grandma

 

[Metrokat]

ha ha

 

[jhart]

Just a thought to help out incase you lose siphon , why not lift your return pump up higher in your sump , so that your whole sump dosen't empty out on your floor .

 

[Metrokat]

Just a thought to help out incase you lose siphon , why not lift your return pump up higher in your sump , so that your whole sump dosen't empty out on your floor .

good point!

 

[Reef Fixations]

Just a thought to help out incase you lose siphon , why not lift your return pump up higher in your sump , so that your whole sump dosen't empty out on your floor .[/

How does raising your return pump higher in the sump stop a sump from overflowing? I'd recommend it to anyone if I knew how that worked.

Or did u mean to raise the return line so it is near the water surface in the display?

 

[jhart]

Caus when you lose siphon water stops going down to the sump,and whatevers left in the sump will fill up the difference in the main tank minus the water that's below the return pump. If the sump and the water level are lets say closer in volume then only alittle water will overflow from the top..

 

[Reef Fixations]

Caus when you lose siphon water stops going down to the sump,and whatevers left in the sump will fill up the difference in the main tank minus the water that's below the return pump. If the sump and the water level are lets say closer in volume then only alittle water will overflow from the top..

I'm doing my best to picture what you're explaining. I even started to lift one of my return pumps up a bit and I can't picture it. I don't know if I'm not registering what you're explaining but in my own head.... if I'm raising the return off the bottom of the sump it will be closer to the surface of the sump's water level; isn't that kind of creating the same issue as if tho your water level has gone down due to evaporation and your pump is now more likely to push micro bubbles into your display?

In my big sump what you're describing wouldn't be an issue at all (because it takes a long time for that much water to evaporate) but in my small sumps it would be an issue I think because they evaporate so quickly due to there not being a lot of volume.

Then again, I guess that can be fixed with an ATO and then I can see the benefits of what you're describing.

 

[jhart]

You definitely will see bubbles if you don't replace your evaporated water, And you will have to replace it more often , which isn't a bad thing either ,being evaporated water it will be cold or room temp which will help lowering your waters temp which could be helpful. Personally If you have a Rodi a float switch in your sump is a must.
So back to raising your pump just make sure its below you float switch.

Now Personally ..I would drill my tank or pay someone before using/Buying overflows and a sump.. If that wasn't an option , I would sell my sump and buy a canister filter/ hang on equipment.

 

[Reef Fixations]

You definitely will see bubbles if you don't replace your evaporated water, And you will have to replace it more often , which isn't a bad thing either ,being evaporated water it will be cold or room temp which will help lowering your waters temp which could be helpful. Personally If you have a Rodi a float switch in your sump is a must.
So back to raising your pump just make sure its below you float switch.

Now Personally ..I would drill my tank or pay someone before using/Buying overflows and a sump.. If that wasn't an option , I would sell my sump and buy a canister filter/ hang on equipment.

I'm going to have to try it because I still can't picture it but I'm more of a visual kinda guy anyway.

But one thing that I do on all of my returns is drill a hole on an "upward" angle just below the waterline so that when a power outage happens or you turn off your return pump, air gets sucked in breaking the syphon once the level in the tank has dropped below that newly drilled hole. Being that the hole is drilled on a upward angel, the water that shoots out of it is shooting down into the tank and not spraying anywhere else. Even if you're running your sump at a high level, it will usually stop quickly even if the return's lock-line is set lower than it should be.

 

[Metrokat]

But one thing that I do on all of my returns is drill a hole on an "upward" angle just below the waterline so that when a power outage happens or you turn off your return pump, air gets sucked in breaking the syphon once the level in the tank has dropped below that newly drilled hole. Being that the hole is drilled on a upward angel, the water that shoots out of it is shooting down into the tank and not spraying anywhere else. Even if you're running your sump at a high level, it will usually stop quickly even if the return's lock-line is set lower than it should be.

Can I see a pic or a sketch of this hole in the return?

 

[Reef Fixations]

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...9&start=29&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:29,i:171

 

[Reef Fixations]

Can I see a pic or a sketch of this hole in the return?

The reason it is on the back spraying against the back wall of the tank, is so that algae won't grow on it from the light constantly feeding potential/inevitable algae growth that may clog it and defeat the purpose and your effort. Just make sure that it is just below your water line and that once your hole is drilled, that water will spray down (as opposed to up an out of the tank).

Just to be clear... (that was the only pic that I could find) the hole depicted in that sketch is too high. It will make microbubbles and promote salt creep so just make sure the hole is just below the water surface.

That sketch is only correct if the pump is off and the water level has already drained somewhat into the sump.

 

[KathyC]

The reason it is on the back spraying against the back wall of the tank, is so that algae won't grow on it from the light constantly feeding potential/inevitable algae growth that may clog it and defeat the purpose and your effort. Just make sure that it is just below your water line and that once your hole is drilled, that water will spray down (as opposed to up an out of the tank).

Just to be clear... (that was the only pic that I could find) the hole depicted in that sketch is too high. It will make microbubbles and promote salt creep so just make sure the hole is just below the water surface.

That sketch is only correct if the pump is off and the water level has already drained somewhat into the sump.

It is most often suggested that 2 holes be drilled about 3/4"of an inch apart in the event one clogs or a snail is sitting over it.

 

[Reef Fixations]

It is most often suggested that 2 holes be drilled about 3/4"of an inch apart in the event one clogs or a snail is sitting over it.

nice point!

 

[Metrokat]

Thanks reef and Kathy.
The lifereef overflow which I am leaning towards has the same instructions. I'll do a second hole as Kathy suggested.

 

[jedimaster1138]

I've used both the LifeReef and the CPR CS90 in the past year. Started with the CPR. LifeReef wins, hands down, every time, at least in this guy's book.

The CPR has several major design flaws:

In the outside chamber the water flows down then up and into the outside most section where it hits the drain pipe. Problem is in one of those baffles, stuff tends to collect at the bottom. In the case of the CS90 at least, that section was narrow enough where getting a turkey baster or something down to the bottom to siphon off the stuff was not possible with anything but a very narrow baster (which i didn't have) Also, such siphoning to clean up was necessary pretty much every other day before it began to rot and turn white and moldy and probably foul the water mightily. Lovely.

Worse though is flaw #2 - the nipple. Yes, the Aqualifter is required to suck out the air bubbles and thus keep the siphon going. Some see this as a good thing, sorta insurance. I find it to be a majorly BAD thing for several reasons though. The most obvious is that if the Aqualifter fails, your siphon will likely break. At least mine did...every time I turned it off for preventative maintenance. Fun when your return pump is still going...

The other, much, much more sinister problem with the nipple is in relation to the aforementioned muck and detritus. That stuff flies about a lot, of course, it's a siphon overflow, that's its job. The thing is, the aqualifter sucks that stuff up too, duh, and guess what - that stuff can clog the nipple. I saw this happen every couple days. I'd go check the output of the aqualifter and see nothing coming out and the u-section full of air. Several times I probably prevented a siphon break by a matter of an hour or less. Again...lucky... with the return still pumping...if you don't notice the siphon breaking...yeah... you're looking at a sump dumped over the top of your tank onto the floor and then a burned out return pump.

Used the CPR for about 3 or 4 months. Got a LifeReef in January. Haven't looked back. I turn off my return 2-3 times a day. Siphon restarts every time. Better, when you need to clean, turn off the return, let it all hit equilibrium, pull out the u tube, wash in sink put back, suck out air, allow to stabilize, turn on return.

Can't recommend it enough.

(i do not work for LifeReef :-D )

 

[Metrokat]

:cheekkiss
Thank you for being so detailed. You confirmed what Reef fixation was also saying, which is that there are less mechanical parts to deal with in a lifereef overflow. Less chance of something not working especially since aqualifters are not terribly reliable.

Thanks!!
Kat

I've used both the LifeReef and the CPR CS90 in the past year. Started with the CPR. LifeReef wins, hands down, every time, at least in this guy's book.

The CPR has several major design flaws:

In the outside chamber the water flows down then up and into the outside most section where it hits the drain pipe. Problem is in one of those baffles, stuff tends to collect at the bottom. In the case of the CS90 at least, that section was narrow enough where getting a turkey baster or something down to the bottom to siphon off the stuff was not possible with anything but a very narrow baster (which i didn't have) Also, such siphoning to clean up was necessary pretty much every other day before it began to rot and turn white and moldy and probably foul the water mightily. Lovely.

Worse though is flaw #2 - the nipple. Yes, the Aqualifter is required to suck out the air bubbles and thus keep the siphon going. Some see this as a good thing, sorta insurance. I find it to be a majorly BAD thing for several reasons though. The most obvious is that if the Aqualifter fails, your siphon will likely break. At least mine did...every time I turned it off for preventative maintenance. Fun when your return pump is still going...

The other, much, much more sinister problem with the nipple is in relation to the aforementioned muck and detritus. That stuff flies about a lot, of course, it's a siphon overflow, that's its job. The thing is, the aqualifter sucks that stuff up too, duh, and guess what - that stuff can clog the nipple. I saw this happen every couple days. I'd go check the output of the aqualifter and see nothing coming out and the u-section full of air. Several times I probably prevented a siphon break by a matter of an hour or less. Again...lucky... with the return still pumping...if you don't notice the siphon breaking...yeah... you're looking at a sump dumped over the top of your tank onto the floor and then a burned out return pump.

Used the CPR for about 3 or 4 months. Got a LifeReef in January. Haven't looked back. I turn off my return 2-3 times a day. Siphon restarts every time. Better, when you need to clean, turn off the return, let it all hit equilibrium, pull out the u tube, wash in sink put back, suck out air, allow to stabilize, turn on return.

Can't recommend it enough.

(i do not work for LifeReef :-D )

 

[Metrokat]

Reviving this discussion again. My sump is being built! Going with the lifereef overflow.
Jeff at LifeReef suggests a mag 7 pump which is a substantial amount of flow for a refugium. I have a RedSea Max and the pump will need to push water about 3 feet. Has anywone used a smaller pump with a lifereef?