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Anonymous
Guest
How many cross braces does a 4X2X2 acrylic tank need? The acrylic is 1/2".
Thanks!
Louey
Thanks!
Louey
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Anonymous
Guest
I would put one in the center then sheet it with 1/2 ply wood. Are you setting up another tank already?
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Anonymous
Guest
1/2 inch is a bit on the edge there.... Send a message to James and hear what he says. I would be more comfortable with 3/4.
As for the X-brace, one is enough. But as always, it depends on the width of the brace.
As for the X-brace, one is enough. But as always, it depends on the width of the brace.
A
Anonymous
Guest
It is for a new sump I had made. The manufacturer didn't install any braces. They said it wasn't necessary because of the 1/2".
I think there mistake was thinking that I would be running a lower water level in my sump. Most people do run lower water levels in there sump.
Either way, the have sent my four 3" wide braces. I think they sent extras just in case I mess one up. I do have to cut them to lenght.
I was thinking one would be fine and two would be more than enough. Four would be ridiculous IMO.
Louey
I think there mistake was thinking that I would be running a lower water level in my sump. Most people do run lower water levels in there sump.
Either way, the have sent my four 3" wide braces. I think they sent extras just in case I mess one up. I do have to cut them to lenght.
I was thinking one would be fine and two would be more than enough. Four would be ridiculous IMO.
Louey
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Anonymous
Guest
i'd put 2 on the ends, and one in the middle.
B
B
Hi Louey,
Given the 1/2" material, you'll want a 3" brace all around and the 6" crossbrace leaving you with (2) 18 x 18" openings.
What many fabricators forget (IMO) is that a sump is given extra capacity in case of power failure yet they continue to design sumps as if they'll *always* be only 1/2 full. During a power failure, the last thing you want to worry about is if the sump will hold water.
Even though 1/2" *may* seem thick enough, you'd be amazed at how much that thing will bow without any bracing, my guess is 3/4" or so - maybe a little more over time. This is unacceptable (IMO) deflection so bracing is a necessity to bring that down to a much safer 1/16 - 1/8".
While I agree with CK that thicker material is always preferable, 1/2" (with good bracing) is adequate. Unfortunately, many mfrs will make the same tank from 3/8" and I've seen 1/4" from a couple.
Has the tank been flame polished? If so, I *personally* would give it back to him to rebuild. Gluing strips on flame polished edges is asking for crazing *especially* if extruded material was used.
Are the 3" strips you got long enough (48")? If not, get some from your fabricator.
Please do keep me updated.
HTH,
James
Given the 1/2" material, you'll want a 3" brace all around and the 6" crossbrace leaving you with (2) 18 x 18" openings.
What many fabricators forget (IMO) is that a sump is given extra capacity in case of power failure yet they continue to design sumps as if they'll *always* be only 1/2 full. During a power failure, the last thing you want to worry about is if the sump will hold water.
Even though 1/2" *may* seem thick enough, you'd be amazed at how much that thing will bow without any bracing, my guess is 3/4" or so - maybe a little more over time. This is unacceptable (IMO) deflection so bracing is a necessity to bring that down to a much safer 1/16 - 1/8".
While I agree with CK that thicker material is always preferable, 1/2" (with good bracing) is adequate. Unfortunately, many mfrs will make the same tank from 3/8" and I've seen 1/4" from a couple.
Has the tank been flame polished? If so, I *personally* would give it back to him to rebuild. Gluing strips on flame polished edges is asking for crazing *especially* if extruded material was used.
Are the 3" strips you got long enough (48")? If not, get some from your fabricator.
Please do keep me updated.
HTH,
James
The four braces they sent me are all 26" long. Just enough for me to cut down to the exact size to span the two walls.
I wonder if it would be better to put the braces on top of the side walls, instead of spanning them?
My sump has removable baffles that wouldn't be removable if I put bracing all the way down the sides. I'd really do need them to be removable so that I can clean the sump thorougly. I also have a float switch/filter cylinder/probe rack mounted on one of the side walls too. That wouldn't work either if I braced all along the side.
How about a 3" brace on each end and two in the middle. That would give me the 6" center brace that you are referring to.
Louey
I wonder if it would be better to put the braces on top of the side walls, instead of spanning them?
My sump has removable baffles that wouldn't be removable if I put bracing all the way down the sides. I'd really do need them to be removable so that I can clean the sump thorougly. I also have a float switch/filter cylinder/probe rack mounted on one of the side walls too. That wouldn't work either if I braced all along the side.
How about a 3" brace on each end and two in the middle. That would give me the 6" center brace that you are referring to.
Louey
Now I have another question.
One of the seams was knocked loose during shipping. Well, I guess it was during shipping. I did notice the loose seam until I had unpacked the sump from the pallet it was delivered on. I loaded the sump into my SUV at work and didn't notice the seam being lose then. I noticed it when I unloaded the sump at home.
Anyways, one of the corner seams is loose in the upper corner. Can I just shot some Weld-on number 4 in the seam and clamp it?
I know sending the sump back to the manufacterer would be a better choice, but that would be such a pain in the ass with shipping and all.
I'd like to fix it myself if I can.
Louey
One of the seams was knocked loose during shipping. Well, I guess it was during shipping. I did notice the loose seam until I had unpacked the sump from the pallet it was delivered on. I loaded the sump into my SUV at work and didn't notice the seam being lose then. I noticed it when I unloaded the sump at home.
Anyways, one of the corner seams is loose in the upper corner. Can I just shot some Weld-on number 4 in the seam and clamp it?
I know sending the sump back to the manufacterer would be a better choice, but that would be such a pain in the ass with shipping and all.
I'd like to fix it myself if I can.
Louey
Louey":1ir82n6z said:
From a strength point of view, makes no difference provided the quality of the joint is similar. But I would think it would be easier to place these on top of the side walls so you don't have to cut the pcs exactly right. just glue 'em on and flush cut the flashing.
Given where you are at, put one at each end so that they are on the end and part of the adjacent sides and strategically place the other two so that they meet the best compromise between equal spacing and not being in the way.
HTH,
James
Tank was flame polished, no question. Any place you see an edge that is shiny - it was most likely flame polished as the time necessary to sand & buff is more than most would put in. You can tell with certainty if the edge is shiney (polished) and has router "tic" marks or bumps. The polished holes ar also a dead giveaway.
More to come.
James
Send it back my friend and have them build it right, I would even expect them to cover the shipping both ways. If they will not do this, have them refund the entire amount, if they won't do this - call your CC company. Sorry if I'm being harsh on this but there is absolutely no way a seam can just split at the joint if it was well made. If the mfr could not get it to stick...
Yeah but if it doesn't hold, 120 gallons of water on your floor woud be a *far* bigger PITA.
More to come.
James
James wrote:
You do mean build a whole new sump, don't you?
Or is there a way they may can repair it?
I was kind of thinking the same thing.
I think if the tank had been properly braced, then whatever caused this joint to fail would not have happened.
I hope this doesn't turn into a pissing match regarding concealed damage between me and the shipping company.
I will contact them and let them no that I have decided that I don't want to be responsible for the repairs and that I want to return it to them.
Louey
You do mean build a whole new sump, don't you?
Or is there a way they may can repair it?
I was kind of thinking the same thing.
I think if the tank had been properly braced, then whatever caused this joint to fail would not have happened.
I hope this doesn't turn into a pissing match regarding concealed damage between me and the shipping company.
I will contact them and let them no that I have decided that I don't want to be responsible for the repairs and that I want to return it to them.
Louey
I agree with them having to make it right for you. I'd call them to send it back also. No reason for you to have to pay for any of it if it's coming apart on you! 8O
But while I'm at it, is this going to replace your current sump? Is it just so it's not as tall?
Good luck, man.
But while I'm at it, is this going to replace your current sump? Is it just so it's not as tall?
Good luck, man.
What they'll prolly say is that it broke due to rough handling during shipment, here's how I see it:
You call me and ask for a tank to be built and shipped to you. I calculate the price of the tank, cost of packaging, and cost of shipment. You agree and pay this price. Unless you choose method of packaging and shipment, I (mfr) choose how to build the tank, how to package, and with whom to ship. I see it as my responsibility to get a tank, in good (operable) condition, to your door. If you get anything less, it is on me. Since I chose how it was packaged and with whom it was shipped - I cannot blame damage on rough handling and expect you to bear any burden. Even with a forklift hole in the side of the tank, it is still my responsiblity as the shipping company is contracted *by me* to get the product to you. If it gross negligence on the part of the shippping company, makes no difference as the shipping company works *for me*, the mfr. as *I* am the one writing the check directly to the shipping company for the freight bill.
And yes, I do mean to rebuild the tank, completely.
Sorry for your trouble, and for me being such a harda$$ about this, just the way I see it. You pay for a product, you should be able to expect it.
Hope it works out well,
James
You call me and ask for a tank to be built and shipped to you. I calculate the price of the tank, cost of packaging, and cost of shipment. You agree and pay this price. Unless you choose method of packaging and shipment, I (mfr) choose how to build the tank, how to package, and with whom to ship. I see it as my responsibility to get a tank, in good (operable) condition, to your door. If you get anything less, it is on me. Since I chose how it was packaged and with whom it was shipped - I cannot blame damage on rough handling and expect you to bear any burden. Even with a forklift hole in the side of the tank, it is still my responsiblity as the shipping company is contracted *by me* to get the product to you. If it gross negligence on the part of the shippping company, makes no difference as the shipping company works *for me*, the mfr. as *I* am the one writing the check directly to the shipping company for the freight bill.
And yes, I do mean to rebuild the tank, completely.
Sorry for your trouble, and for me being such a harda$$ about this, just the way I see it. You pay for a product, you should be able to expect it.
Hope it works out well,
James
Thanks James.
I didn't know that repairing the tank is out of the question. That being the case, I have no choice but to return it. I wish I had came to the conclusion on my own and insisted on returning it the day I got it.
What is scary is that they didn't insist that I return it to them. They should have also known that the faulty seam meant the tank was terminal.
We'll see what they say and do.
Louey
I didn't know that repairing the tank is out of the question. That being the case, I have no choice but to return it. I wish I had came to the conclusion on my own and insisted on returning it the day I got it.
What is scary is that they didn't insist that I return it to them. They should have also known that the faulty seam meant the tank was terminal.
We'll see what they say and do.
Louey
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