Some coral dip Tests

[JasonE]

I had a very interesting conversation with Sean (ssolby) today about an idea of dipping diseased corals and those with parasites in a solution of Hydrogen Peroxide. We have a feeling that it could be a simple dip to remove AEFW and Red bugs, as well as certain infections.
We are going to do some tests on an assortment of corals, various dilutions and see what we come up with. It could potentially be very interesting, then again...maybe not.
We'll keep you posted.

 

[aaron23]

oooooooooooooo i cant wait for the trials.... can there be a log / big post with pictures to keep us updated??

 

[EXPEDITION]

Yeah i vote for some type of log,to keep us updated.Like before,& after pics.This could be huge.

I have heard of diping SPS corals in peroxide for AEFW before,just never knew anyone who did it.

 

[ellebelle]

If you guys want any more test subjects, let me know. I have an xmas favia which I THINK has yellow band disease. It looks a lot like the photos I saw at the swap. I keep hoping that with enough tlc it will recover (and has shown signs of coming back in places farther away from the lesion).

 

[jhale]

based on the conversation with Shaun, Jason, and Randy I'm going to try some HP on aiptasia, injecting, not dipping. I'll let you know what happens.

 

[prattreef]

Yes, this a most interesting and potentially groundbreaking endeavor. I might just try my hand at it too over the next few weeks. Maybe Shaun can chime in with a bit of the reasoning behind why this might work. There is little question it will kill lots of nasty stuff. BUT how will corals tolerate it, at what strength solution and for what duration of exposure will be the tricky part.

Please do keep us posted Jason.

 

[Dace]

based on the conversation with Shaun, Jason, and Randy I'm going to try some HP on aiptasia, injecting, not dipping. I'll let you know what happens.

I hope not in tank.......yes i know. it's a dumb question. :biggrin:

 

[ShaunW]

Without a doubt hydrogen peroxide will kill most living creatures depending on the dosage. It is a great disinfectant. Hydrogen peroxide is a powerful oxidizing agent due to the release of the reactive free radical oxygen species.

But, it all comes down to the relative LD50 of the creatures you want to kill and the ones you don't. LD50 = Median lethal dose of a substance to kill 50% of the creatures over a given arbitrary time frame as it is full active, and before the toxic substance degrades. You want, for example, AEFW to be more susceptible than the host coral.

Jason some info:
- 3% H2O2 is used medically for cleaning wounds, commercial peroxide, as bought at the drugstore is a 2.5%-3% solution.
- The FDA has classified hydrogen peroxide as a drug for use in controlling fungus on fish and fish eggs.

As a dosage I would try 50% of the drug store product (3%) solution and work down from there to find the LD50 of the coral tested. Your time frame should be 15 minutes, as a best guess. I would then do the same thing with AEFW or other disease causing agents you are interested in killing.

 

[jhale]

I hope not in tank..

actually in the sump, and it took quite a bit of hydrogen peroxide to damage the aiptasia. it must have a high LD50 :anger2:
after 2 injections of 6mm each it was still hanging on, definitely not happy, but not dead.

I'll be interested to see what jason comes up with. At the least it may be another way to stun AEFW's off a colony,
and if you get the dosage right it may not hurt the coral.

 

[lfsmarineguy]

Once my tank gets back on track and my formosa recovers I would be more than happy to donate or test frags myself. The thing grows a ton of uniform branches atleast 1.5 inches every 2 months or so. I will try weak solutions on some of the corals we get in and see what comes off them if anything. I will document with pics.

 

[JasonE]

I'm happy people are interested, and thanks for volunteering help.
As an aside, we'll also be seeing how it affects fish with flukes, fungal infections, ich etc.
Today I'm going to test how long healthy corals can stand different dosages, as well as dip a clown with brook.

 

[NYreefNoob]

would also be interested in donating some monti's that have nudi's. just tried the two little fish revive dip. all seems good so far, but not sure if it killed the eggs also, this stuff had no ill effect on corals. put it in a bucket with a ph for 5 minutes and swirled corals around also. peroixide will be a more cost effective treatment though. will watching this

 

[sanjay]

Jason:

There is some information in this article in Advanced Aquarist on using H2O2 for treating ich.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/mini3.htm

Might give you a starting point for fish.

sanjay.

 

[sanjay]

Anotehr interesting site for H2O2 information.

http://www.h2o2.com/

sanjay.

 

[ellebelle]

actually in the sump, and it took quite a bit of hydrogen peroxide to damage the aiptasia. it must have a high LD50 :anger2:
after 2 injections of 6mm each it was still hanging on, definitely not happy, but not dead.

I used hydrochloric acid on mine, and some of the small ones died right away, but there were a couple of the big ones that kept hanging on with repeat doses - with a metal needle injecting it directly into its body.

 

[JasonE]

Okay,
A little busy today but I dipped a couple of corals to see what would happen.
The first was a Favia that that had some type of bacterial infection in the centre. I dipped it for three minutes in a 50/50 solution of H202 and salt water.
It cleaned it up quickly, killed a bunch of pods, and the healthy polyps started fizzing from the mouth. We'll see how it looks tomorrow...
The second coral was a healthy well encrusted acro frag. Again three minutes in 50/50 solution. It certainly didn't like it very much but polyps had extended again after about an hour.

 

[Dace]

Okay,
A little busy today but I dipped a couple of corals to see what would happen.
The first was a Favia that that had some type of bacterial infection in the centre. I dipped it for three minutes in a 50/50 solution of H202 and salt water.
It cleaned it up quickly, killed a bunch of pods, and the healthy polyps started fizzing from the mouth. We'll see how it looks tomorrow...
The second coral was a healthy well encrusted acro frag. Again three minutes in 50/50 solution. It certainly didn't like it very much but polyps had extended again after about an hour.

Are you concerned about what might happen if the corals releases some of the h202 it consumes back into the water. like when you dip a coral with TMPC how it tends to release the iodine back into the tank which tends to brown out the corals in the tank at times even though they usually color back up in time or are you using a quarantine tank.

 

[JasonE]

I'm no chemist (um, Shaun?) but it's my understanding that the H2O2 breaks down very quickly so I'm not concerned. We'd actually talked about the possibility of dripping H2O2 into aquariums that had low O2 as a way to boost it. Power outages??
I have a couple of Blue Eyed Cardinals with some fungus growing on their first dorsal spine which I'm going to dip tomorrow.
Oh, and yes, all dipping/recovery is in a separate system.

Are you concerned about what might happen if the corals releases some of the h202 it consumes back into the water. like when you dip a coral with TMPC how it tends to release the iodine back into the tank which tends to brown out the corals in the tank at times even though they usually color back up in time or are you using a quarantine tank.

 

[prattreef]

I think H202 is of little concern in the trace amounts, if any, that might be released by a treated coral. As Jason alluded to, H202 has been used directly in reef systems right from the bottle in emergency power-outage situations in an attempt to keep O2 levels from plummeting without damage. Frankly, I find the leaching of Iodine from TMPC treated corals a dubious cause of browning in untreated corals. How much iodine can they possibly absorb or sequester? I suspect, I and others add far more iodine either as Lugols or Potassium Iodine regularly than can possibly be accounted for in the treatment scenario.

 

[aaron23]

Wow very interesting randy / Jason,

H202 is used to increase o2 levels during power outages? Any article or info on how much to dose per gal of water during an outage?

thanks