Propagation Setup

[jthunder]

I have been trying to figure out the best type of system to setup to start small scall propagation of some soft corals, with the ability to grow larger by adding modular peices. Keep in mind that this is a "cost effective" setup so budget is one of the primary concerns.

I have an unfinished basement approx 24' x 11' in dimension that I can use in any configuration. I also have unfinished ceilings and walls that can be used to mount any type of hardware.

I was thinking about using industrial polypropelyne trays (FDA approved for potable water). They measure 48"Lx36"Wx8"H, and are a white translucent plastic. They are used for containment trays for spillage from rail cars. The volume of each tray is 50 gallons. I was planning on raising them so the top of the tray is 3' from the floor.

Plumbing for the tray will be done by installing a 1" 1/4 bulkhead in each end of the tray then splitting the input side with a PVC tee and 2 45 corners to split the flow. The return bulkhead will have a PVC 90 and length of pipe to create a surface skimming drain.

The drain will empty into a refugium (rubbermaid type container) beneath the stand that will contain a DSB and some macro algae on a reverse photoperiod. The refugium will then drain via a similar 1-1/4" bulkhead through pvc into a larger sump (rubbermaid stock tank maybe) for heating/skimming/feeding/supplements/etc. and be pumped back into the system.

Circulation requirements I estimate will be approx 500gph based on the 50 gallon tray. The circulation will come from a medium sized circulation pump fed into a manifold type of fitting that will allow for more tray systems to be added if the first one is successful. I will also probably run the skimmer using the circulation pump as well. Each of the additional trays if added will be identical with respect to size, plumbing, refugium, etc. except for the lighting which I may increase or change to grow different corals. The system has a maximum usable volume for corals of 200 gallons, if I have a total of 4 tray systems.

Lighting for the tray will be in the form of 2x shoplight fixtures with 4 2xOverdriven NO 6500k bulbs. This fixture will be hung from the ceiling and sit approximately 2-3" above the surface of the water. I am hoping that the white color of the tray will reflect the light enought to provide an even distribution across the tray.

A couple of things that I'm not sure about that people might be able to help with are:

1. Will the 1-1/4" bulkheads and PVB give me enough flow/drainage to pump 500-1000 gph through the trays/plumbing? What is the maximum?

2. Does the lighting sound like enough to start growing soft corals in the 48" wide tray?

3. I am estimating that 1 frag can be grown out per 3x3" of area within the tray minus some space to accomodate plumbin, does this sound reasonable?

4. Will a large skimmer be needed for this system? I don't plan on keeping fish in the system at this point, and I don't forsee a large bioload, others with experience will be able to better answer this.

Thanks for the comments, I appreciate any suggestions or critisism that is given.

JT

 

[Anonymous]

1. THe 1.25 will be fine for that flow.

2. I would consider VHO or 175 watt MH. This way if you decide to prop SPS you will not have to upgrade the lights. Vho or MH will give better growth on the softies also.

3. 3x3 seems like a reasonable estimate

4. I would get a skimmer big enough for the target size of the system. You can always run it for a reduced time.

I see that you are planning to run a header and on big pump. I would like to suggest a reciculation line. All this is is a line that runs from the minifold back to sump without passing through a tank. This will be helpful if youhave to choke the pump way down.

 

[liquid]

Hi JT:

Sounds like you've thought this out pretty well and I like your idea of using that 4'x3'x8" tray for the primary growout of your soft corals. Where'd you get your trays anyhow? I know I'd like to know.

First off....where are you located? If you're anywhere in Michigan, check out Tropicorium in Romulus, MI. They're doing large scale coral prop in a greenhouse and you might be able to take away a couple pointers from them.

Also, I'd highly recommend you pick up Anthony Calfo's Book of Coral Propagation: http://www.readingtrees.com/bocpV1.htm Anthony goes thru what he learned when he setup a coral prop greenhouse in PA. Definitely worth the read if you're going to prop coral.

Also check out FarmerTodd's prop setup that he had in his appartment: http://reefs.org/library/farmertodd/ Definitely some things worth taking home in there.

What will you be mounting your frags to? Are you going to have rubble in the bottom of that 4'x3' tank and just drop the frags on that to base out? Take a look at Trop's website to see how they did it in shallow pans: http://www.tropicorium.com/tsoft_corals.html

I think overdriving those NO's with an IceCap 660 ballast will work nicely for you for soft coral. Some links of interest:

http://www.icecapinc.com/rev1.htm

http://www.icecapinc.com/rev3.htm

I'm doing the same thing on my 30 long (4'x1'x1') and the coral seem to do pretty well in there. One thing you may want to do is make it so that you can easily raise and lower your lights. This can be accomplished by putting the entire fixture on a pulley system and to get into the tank all you have to do is pull on the rope to raise the light fixture away from the water's surface. Same thing I did w/ my 30 gal and I"m seriously liking it. Oh the bulbs I ended up using were 4' GE Daylight bulbs from Home Depot and they cost like $5/bulb. Much cheaper than a VHO bulb and they put out a pretty good amount of light being overdriven.

You may also be able to setup a cascading style system so that you can plumb multiple trays into one refugium instead of having multiple systems. Basically put your next tray lower than the first one and make the flow from the highest tray drop into the next tray and then into the sump.

To answer your questions:

1) You'll have to experiment with this a bit. You may or may not have to add multiple drains on the tray and you may not. You may want to put an external Durso standpipe on the drainage side of the 1 1/4" bulkheads. To see what I mean, head over to http://www.dursostandpipes.com/ and click on "External Overflow Standpipe Design".

2) See above text.

3) 3"x3" sounds like a reasonable assumption.

4) You may need to consider a skimmer for this application. You can either purchase a high powered skimmer or build your own air driven CC skimmer with these plans: http://www.hawkfish.org/snailman/snailmandiy.htm

It would be cool if you could post a schematic of your proposed system. I know I'd like to see it. :mrgreen:

Shane

 

[jthunder]

Wazzel:

1. Great news! Do you have a link that compares flow to pvc size?

2. I plan on determining the lighting for a tray as I add it, if SPS is one, I would look at DIYing some MH pendants/reflectors.

3. I thought that was reasonable

4. The reason I wanted to have a refugium under each of the trays is to eliminate the need to have a skimmer, or a large one anyway. I plan on feeding frozen food as well as a large amount of greenwater (phyto) and rotifers and maybe some brine shrimp. I am in the process of putting together the plans for the culture stations.

Liquid:

Here is a link to the local plastics place that makes these trays (http://www.zeebest.com). They make several other tanks and can custom make stuff too, but the budget won't allow it...

I'm located in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada (read cold climate). And one of the main reasons for doing this is that there are not too many Canadian propagation outfits.

Thanks for the links, they were quite usefull, I will definately be plumbing in a return to the sump from the manifold as the pump will be quite a bit more powerfull than I need at the start.

Right now the plans I have are in pencil and in my head, I'll probably get them electronic at some point using visio and I'll post them after with pics of the preposed space.

Thanks for the comments guys...

Mark

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry I have reference books, but no link. I use 1" PVC for my tank drain and it runs about 900 GPM.

 

[jthunder]

900GPM!!!! WHOA what kind of pump do you have on there? lol

Is that the max flow for that drain or can you post the diameter of pipe and the associated flow?

Thanks

 

[liquid]

I think he meant GPH...

Shane

 

[Anonymous]

Yes I did mean GPH. Sorry about that. I would say that is near the max flow for a 1" drian pipe.

 

[scottk1]

I would up your circulation via a larger pump(s) or some PH's if you plan to do SPS. I would plan for 20 times as opposed to 10 times. Always plan to max. You may decide to do delicate SPS later and your upgrade would be minimal. The actual skimmer, IMO, doesn't have to be that big if you aren't doing fish. You actually want a lot of nutrients in the water and not skimmed out to maximize your growth. Your biggest needs are lighting (MHs and VHOs), water movement and some sort of calcium addition.

Good luck!

I wish I had a basement for coral prop........ :wink:

 

[jthunder]

So, to update this thread, I am moving forward in setting this up. I have found a great source of 6mm plate glass that I am going to cut and assemble myself into the 3x4x1 tray. Also instead of having the plumbing in one side of the tray and out the other, I am going to build a raceway system with another peice of glass 3/4 of the way down the middle.

The lighting is also a little DIY mod, I have some old 2' wide x 4' long flourescent fixtures, I pulled the old mag ballasts out and I'm going to wire in 2 4 bulb t8 ballasts. And run 4 bulbs overdriven by a factor of 2 (run two sets of outputs to each bulb). I have room to put another fixture of 4 bulbs for a total of 8 over the tray, which will only cost me an additional 50 bux in supplies.

For plumbing I'm going to use 1 1/2 inch PVC and use a quiteone 6000 pump. The plan is to upgrade the system with a 5 gallon surge to provide opposite flow.

Anymore comments are appreciated. Thanks.

JT

 

[liquid]

If the tank is 3'x4', I'd suggest making the raceway's about 1' wide. That way you get more flow thru the raceway slots. I'd love to see pics when you get a chance.

Shane

 

[Fozza]

Yo,

Did you ever get this project up and running?

I'm very interested in trying my hand at something similar, mainly propogating mushrooms in one tub, colts in a second and breeding peppermints in a third and fourth tub.

I'd like to see a diagram of how you set up the project and hear how well its worked for you and what you'd change etc, if you did it over.