Banggai Update

[Ret_Talbot]

This field update on the Banggai cardinalfish issue is based on personal communication with Gayatri Reksodihardjo. She has permitted me to share periodic updates from the field through my blog at Microcosm Aquarium Explorer <http://microcosmaqx.typepad.com/ret_talbot/>, but I will also periodically post here for those who are interested and don't get over Microcosm. My updates are not meant as an endorsement of either LINI or the MAC, but, instead, are provided in an effort to share information and bring more transparency to this issue.

Today's Field Update from LINI's Gayatri Reksodihardjo:

Gayatri reports the following recent accomplishments of which aquarists and industry insiders should be aware:

• A series of meetings were facilitated by the national government for the development of a Banggai Cardinal Fish Management Plan. The draft plan is expected to be reviewed in November 2008.
  
  The Banggai fisheries district has started the monitoring the harvest of BCF from the Banggai area. Six months’ worth of harvest data have now been collected, and a review of the harvest figures and potential quotas will be conducted toward the end of this year. These data will be used as one of the key tools when reviewing the management plan of the area.
  
  The Banggai district government established a number of marine conservation areas in 2007. These will need to be fully implemented with the full understanding and support of the local communities.
  
  A population survey assessment for BCF populations outside the Banggai Islands will be conducted later this year. Populations in Bali, for example, could provide another significant alternative source of good quality wild-caught fish if properly managed.
  
  The BCF will be the flagship species for the trade here in Indonesia, and the current work on the species will provide a model for the development of management plans for other highlighted species of marine aquarium fishes.

 

[PeterIMA]

The SPC Live Reef Fish Information Bulletin Vol. 18 (published online)
has papers on the Banggai Cardinalfish including one by Ron Lilly and by Dr. Vagelli. The papers are downloadable from the website as PDF files. Try googling Live Reef Fish Information Bulletin.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

The SPC Live Reef Fish Information Bulletin Vol. 18 (published online)
has papers on the Banggai Cardinalfish including one by Gayatri Lilly and by Dr. Vagelli. The papers are downloadable from the website as PDF files. Try googling Live Reef Fish Information Bulletin.

Peter Rubec

http://www.spc.int/coastfish/

 

[Fish_dave]

Anybody else see the article in Aquarium Fish magazine by John Tullock on captive propagation of fish? He states, speaking of the Bangaii Cardinal " In the years since its introduction to the aquarium trade ... the wild population of this fish has shrunk by nearly 90 percent - likely the result of collecting for the aquarium trade."

No source quoted for the statement, no studies quoted, and in my opinion no common sense used in making the statement. He goes on to state that " as many as 900,000 Banggai cardinalfish are exported from the islands each year." Another statement not based on fact. Looking at availability lists from Indonesia and the numbers imported into the states his numbers are most likely off by an order of magnitude, his daily export figures are most likely closer to the weekly export figures.

How does overstating the problem this wildly help? I think that reasonably accurate numbers need to be used if your proposal is to be believed. I suspect that part of the reason the proposal to include Bangaiis in CITES was dropped by the U.S. is that crazy unproven numbers were used in the submission documents.

I for one don't like to see these inflated figures thrown around in literature as accurate.

Dave

 

[JeremyR]

That's the green way to get your agenda done. Lie about things to affect public perception. Why is it illegal to keep squirrels, skunks, and racoons as pets when you can import a wallaby? Why are piranas illegal in northern states, but legal in many southern? Why are aquacultured orchids from nurseries covered under cites? Why are aquacultured corals from countries nowhere near the reefs covered by cites? To fund beurocracy and impose the will of the man.

 

[Anonymous]

IIRC thats a mistake of exported vs collected.

 

[Anonymous]

IIRC thats a mistake of exported vs collected.

As in loss in the CoC as opposed to what is actually seen/sold stateside?

 

[Fish_dave]

Even if he changed his statement to read collected rather than exported I still do not believe the numbers. This talk of huge mortality numbers in transit to exporters does not hold up. Live fish are money to the collectors and to the transport brokers, dead fish are worthless. They are in the business to make money. There is mortality and more of it than needs to be but the talk of hundreds of thousands of dead fish has never been verified. Maybe one very bad shipment was observed and then extrapolated out for a full year, I don't know, but the numbers just do not make sense that these guys regularly throw out there.

If the wild numbers have decreased by over 90 % as claimed there would be a run up on price for the fish. Collectors know how to exploit the market when they have a way to do it. Look at blue tangs, as the supply dwindled the price shot up. If wild Bangaii populations were down 90% we would see prices go up just like blue tang prices.

The numbers do not make sense to me, exported numbers or collected numbers, I can't see how the numbers could be correct and I have seen no GOOD data to back it up, only extrapolated data from questionable sources.

Dave

 

[swsaltwater]

All I can say is mortality is high on wilds. Personally would not mind seeing em stopped.

 

[Fish_dave]

Personally you do not depend on them for your livelyhood. There are many people in Indonesia that do depend on them for their livelyhoods and I suspect that they may have a different view on the matter.

In my opinion, better to try and help solve the mortality problem than take away another persons income. By refusing to buy wild fish you are taking away needed income for coastal fishermen.

Dave

 

[naesco]

What a bunch of ignornant posting
It is simple to determine their numbers.
We are talking one species from one area.
If you don't believe the statement get on the phone and talk to an Indonesian exporter that deals with these fish.. You don't need a fricten study done.

This denial on the part of US industry is sickening.
Pick up the phone and get educated.
Fortuneately there is help on the way.

 

[JeremyR]

Wayne,

Go pick up an economics book and get educated yourself. Specifically, read the section on supply and demand. What happens when there is demand for something, and the supply is dropped by 90%? The price goes up? DING DING DING!

I don't even sell wild cardinals as we have a local breeder, but for pete's sake when are people going to learn to use their brain and apply common sense? Tullock & others have been saying they were on the brink of extinction since like 1997 and the price is about 20% of what it was back then. Do the math.

 

[Anonymous]

I think part of the problem is that they do seem to be on the brink of extinction in their original habitat, but not in their introduced habitats.

 

[bookfish]

Really!? I can get a wallaby!

 

[PeterIMA]

Dave,
The numbers used by John Tullock in his Aquarium Fish paper are published numbers used in scientific papers by Dr. Vagelli and others. The fact that more than one scientist has published similar data in peer-reviewed papers makes these numbers facts. Your opinions are not scientific facts.

If you go back into the discussions we had on RDO about two years ago, you will see I also used these numbers (like the estimate of 900,000 Banggais harvested per year out of a population of about 2 million fish). No one disputed them then.

I also have informed this forum on RDO about recent papers on the Live Reef Fish Information Bulletin. No one on this forum appears to have read them and is prepared to discuss them. Lets at least discuss the recent information. Tullock's paper describes the situation about 8 years ago, based on scientific findings that were published about 5 years ago. Lets at least discuss the current situation presented in current papers.

Now that LINI (and MAC) have made the Banggai Cardinalfish its poster child, you can expect more pressure to ban its trade. Tullock noted that the species is listed in the IUCN redbook as being Endangered.

There soon will be a lot of funding to deal with Threatened and Endangered Species through the Coral Triangle Initiative. I expect that steps will be made to better manage the fisheries for live marine aquarium fish and live food fish. and to put a stop to the use of cyanide etc.

Peter Rubec

 

[JeremyR]

Peter,

If these are "facts" then how do you explain the subversion of supply & demand?

 

[dizzy]

The data appears to have been erichugonized. Some researcher comes up with somewhat questionable data, but instead of being challenged, it is picked up and repeated in enough papers until it morphs into settled "fact". It is certainly not the first time we have witnessed such a phenomenon, which is inspired by a desire for the research to support a theory.
Mitch
PS
I never realized simply having something published by scientists made it a fact, I always thought it actually had to be true before it became a fact. I guess it all depends on what your definition of is, is.

 

[JeremyR]

Mitch,

We all know there has never been a peer reviewed paper in any discipline that has ever turned out to have been wrong.

 

[PeterIMA]

Jeremy, The actual "supply" of BCF is less than 50,000 fish per year reaching markets in the US and Europe. Demand is not so high that it contributes to the high rate of exploitation. Ron Lilley's article in Live Reef Fish Information Bullettin (No 18) shows that the collectors admit there is a high mortality that is mostly related to poor collection and handling practices.

So, the problem is that huge numbers die BEFORE they get to the exporters. My comment made previously on RDO is that improvements can be made. Ferdinand Cruz (EASTI) was able to markedly reduce the mortality of BCN shipped by boat from Sulawesi to Les by using chemical additives in the shipping bags. This is not a situation where boycotts by hobbyists (changing the demand) will help the situation. A sustainable trade in BCN is possible and there is no need for either a ban or to boycott the trade.

Peter

 

[dizzy]

Peter that is pretty high mortality. Correct me if I'm wrong but something like 17 die for every one that makes it to market. Are you absolutely certain that is a fact?