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wnlandfo

Experienced Reefer
Location
New York
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Hi MR,

Ive been shooting a few photos of my tank with my Canon T1i (500D). Ive been using the standard lens that come with the camera but I would like to venture out. I wanted to know which lens you all would suggest for macro photography. I was thinking of purchasing the 100mm f2.8 macro. Any experience with this lens? Any other suggestions? What's the best lens for reef shots?
 

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cali_reef

Fish and Coral Killer
Rating - 97.3%
36   1   0
I don't do much macro pictures, so take what I post with a grain of salt.. There are a few others that takes great macros, lets hope they chime in here.

That lens cost almost as much as the T1i and is a bit long for macros in a smaller tank, it's the equivalent of a 160mm with the 1.6x factor. I have one and I don't use it much for my tank pictures, I am thinking about swapping it out with a 60mm EF-s macro.
 

MO~IDOL

I Work Hard For Color!
Vendor
Rating - 100%
643   0   0
Note: The lenses price listed on this post are not up to date.

Choosing a Macro Lens by Working Distance vs. Price



All macro lenses all brutally sharp, so there is little gained discussing/obsessing sharpness comparisons. Here's a different practical way to compare macro lenses: Consider working distances (WD) versus prices when these lenses listed are close focused at full 1:1 magnification:
60mm Canon = 10 cm WD @ $440
100mm Canon = 15 cm WD @ $480
150mm Sigma = 20 cm WD @ $620
180mm Tamron = 26cm WD @ $690
180mm Canon = 25 cm WD @ $1,300​
WD 10cm.
Unless you need this 60mm EF-S macro for specific uses the 100mm Canon macro is a better all around WD value and flexible use for most people. The 60mm is limited to EF-S mount Canon cameras.
I carry this 60mm macro when working in the field with no tripod, as a portable, hand hold able macro that lets me use it a moderate shutter speeds without excessive camera shake blur, as part of a portable field travel kit. It is the only Canon macro that let’s you leave on the filter while using the 14EX or 24EX macro flash units.
If you vacation/travel with a wide angle (e.g., 17-40mm) and telephoto zoom (e.g., 70-200mm f/4) this 60mm becomes the lower light lens as well as the macro.
Those of us who respect Nikkor 60mm micro Nikkor waited a long time for Canon to make one, it just happens (sadly) to be EF-S mount.

WD 15 cm.
You only pay about $40 to add 5 cm of WD from Canon's 60 to 100mm macro lens. Due to floating internal elements, the Canon 100mm has a shorter than 100 mm internal actual focal length at 1:1, likely 70-80mm, maintaining a good field of view while providing 14.9 cm WD. This is a GREAT flexible lens. 5 cm is a big 50% WD distance gain.

WD 20cm.
Pay additional $140 for another 5cm WD step gained from the Canon 100mm to the Sigma 150mm. The Sigma comes with a hood, tripod mount, HSM auto focus with full-time manual over ride (I manually focus much of the time), making it an very good middle contender, if it fits your needs. It is the first Sigma lens ever I used that contributed something important to photography performance; not another a “me-too” price-point product. Sigma4Less.com sells it reasonable.

WD 25cm.
Step up and you pay an added $700 for the next (last) 5 cm WD gained between the Sigma 150mm and the Canon 180mm. This is an amazing optic, little diffraction even when stopped down to f/22+. Ultimate WD.
The longer focal length makes it much easier to compose shots by isolating subjects, eliminating clutter, and much easier to get the lens plane position parallel to where you want the maximum depth of field on the subject.
It's big and long and prefers to be used tripod mounted, except when "butterfly hunting." Works with Canon 1.4x teleconverter as a bonus. The last macro lens you’ll ever buy.

WD 26 cm.
The Tamron is the longest WD versus price value winner, but I did not use nor consider it because a lens filter adjuster may prevent using the MT 24-EX Macro Flash.


What is Working Distance?
WD is the distance from the FRONT of lens element to the subject when the lenses are focused at their closest focus 1:1 magnification. Macro lenses all focus continuously to infinity also, but we are only calculating close focus distance above.

Calculate WD
= published close focus spec for lens - lens length - distance between rear element and sensor or film plane (which is approx. 4.4 cm for Canon EOS camera system.

Light Loss
WD is a BIG limiting use factor (in addition to the full 2 f/stops of light loss @ 1:1 magnification), so get as much WD as you can afford.

If you're serious about macro, try not to buy a macro where the lens barrel length changes during focus. For casual macro users, this is OK (like carrying the old Canon 50mm f/2.5 in a pocket out for a hike).

More Fun at Less than Life Size
When we mean macro, we mean life size reproduction, (1:1) magnification or greater. There is loads of fun "close-up" photography at less than life size, say 0.25x to 0.70x (butterfly and dragonfly hunting range) that you can do with diopters, close focusing zooms, etc. A cheap Canon XXmm-300mm zoom with a Canon 500D ($140) +2 diopter makes a good butterfly hunter, providing about 0.4-0.7x depending on focal length.

Using a wide angle lens close-up enables “a thing in its environment” close-ups,” which are useful and popular.

Hope that helps. Jack

Normally, the common street opinion is, given lenses of similar optical design, the shorter the focal length, the greater the DoF, the longer the focal length, the more distance is compressed behind the plane of focus (less DoF). But this is way too simplistic, and does not hold up under macro close focus distances with floating element macro lenses.

In general:
1. It is a struggle to obtain enough DoF under macro conditions and the lens focal length is less important than framing angle on the subject, etc.
2. Choose a macro lens for its handling, working distance, FL field of view framing, alternate uses, and NOT for perceived DoF differences.

Why?
The relationship between lens focal length and DoF - at macro magnification - is not clear, and there is no guarantee that a shorter focal length macro lens gives more DoF where you want it in a photograph than a longer FL lens. In fact, under macro conditions, the differences between shorter and longer focal length lenses may have more to do with shifting the plane of focus in front or behind the focus point depending on lens focal length. And more to do with framing the subject.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=779256#post779256
POLL
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=160960
 
Last edited:

Aquabacs

Azooxanthellae Addict
Location
Yonkers, NY
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Let me let you on a little secret. There are a few online companies that rent lens. (Rentglass.com) If you need a lens for a few days to take macro photos of your aquarium, need a super telephoto for an event, or just want to test out a lens on your tank prior to spending 1k, it is a good option. Mike
 

bad coffee

Inept at life.
Rating - 100%
27   0   0
I have the Canon 100. It's nice, but as Cali said, it's kinda limited. To get a FTS with it, I have to back clear across the room

Most of my tank pics are taken with my 17-40 4.0 L. It's a great lens, but isn't cheap.

B
 

olivier

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 90.9%
20   2   0
DHaut,
Sigma 150 f2.8 is a kicka$$ lens. very very nice sharp lens. I used to have it and trade in for tamron 180 f4. totally regret. very fast focus while tamron is hunting like crazy on my nikon F5, nikon F4, nikon F6 and nikon D300. I trade in for tamron 180 b'cause i do a lot with flower macro and need long lens to throw background cluster out. Then when I switch to digital, the Tamron 180 f4 x 1.5 crap factor become too long of a lens on DSLR. :( . I should kept the sigma 150 f2.8 HSM. I highly recommend this lens over nikon 105 AFS VR or Canon 100 macro lens due to price vs performance. sigma is comming out with a 60mm macro lens soon. check with dpreview to see when the lens is on market.

I need to do money vs performance in trade study when buying camera lens because i have too many hobbies that my spouse upsad about. I feel bad that i spend too much money on motocycle, SW fish tank, cameras + lenses . Totally wish money from the tree.
 

olivier

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 90.9%
20   2   0
For coral which is very much static subject, go with anything in the range of 60mm to 105mm. make sure you get some lens that you can open widely for low light condition. Check with sigma on their lens and tamron.

here is list of macro lens that has been known for their performance (sharpness and great color reproduction)

1) Tamron 90mm macro lens
2) Tamron 180mm macro lens
3) Sigma 150mm macro lens (make sure you buy the latest version HSM II)
4) Sigma 105mm macro
5) Sigma 60mm macro
6) Tokina 100 macro
7) Nikon 105 micro AF F2.8
8) Nikon 105micro AFS VR F2.8
9) Nikon 70-180mm AF Micro
10) Nikon 200mm AF Micro
11) nikon 55mm AIS Micro lens (nice lens)
12) Nikon 60mm AF Micro lens
13) Canon 100 macro lens (i only know this lens from canon since I am a nikon shooter)

if you are nikon shoooter, you can not go wrong with any of those nikon made lens however, they are expensive in compare to third party lens. Sigma and Tamron lens come very close to nikon in term of performance such as sharpness, color rendertion, focusing, light fall off, bokeh, color fringe etc.
Price wise, third party cheaper. like 1/2 the cost :) go to adorama or bhphoto in NYC and rent these lens before buy to try it out .

Preferably close up coral.







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wnlandfo

Experienced Reefer
Location
New York
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Cali-reef: are you referring to the Canon EF-S 60mm f2.8 macro. Would you happen to know if there's a difference between that lens and the telephoto EF 100mm f2.8 macro (the one for $529-or is that not the one I should be looking at?)

cali_reef said:
I don't do much macro pictures, so take what I post with a grain of salt.. There are a few others that takes great macros, lets hope they chime in here.

That lens cost almost as much as the T1i and is a bit long for macros in a smaller tank, it's the equivalent of a 160mm with the 1.6x factor. I have one and I don't use it much for my tank pictures, I am thinking about swapping it out with a 60mm EF-s macro.



Sent from my iPhone using Reefs
 

wnlandfo

Experienced Reefer
Location
New York
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
So whether I purchase the 100mm or 60mm. There isn't a huge difference in the quality of the shots? What if Id like to capture fish in my photos although Im focusing more on coral?

olivier said:
for tank shot, I strongly recommend something like 60mm macro lens or 100mm macro lens. sigma lens is excellent and good price.



Sent from my iPhone using Reefs
 

wnlandfo

Experienced Reefer
Location
New York
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Mo-IDOL: Thank you! A lot of great information for me to digest and use to figure out when buying my next macro. So all I need to determine is the WD. With that said, your advice is to get the longest WD at a price that I can afford. You mentioned that you carry the 60mm around with you. Is this a macro lens you use most often in your macro photography? So an affordable lens that'll do an amazing job would be the 150 Sigma? Are there any advantages to any of these lenses where I can also use them with portrait shots?

MO~IDOL said:
Note: The lenses price listed on this post are not up to date.

Choosing a Macro Lens by Working Distance vs. Price


All macro lenses all brutally sharp, so there is little gained discussing/obsessing sharpness comparisons. Here's a different practical way to compare macro lenses: Consider working distances (WD) versus prices when these lenses listed are close focused at full 1:1 magnification:60mm Canon = 10 cm WD @ $440
100mm Canon = 15 cm WD @ $480
150mm Sigma = 20 cm WD @ $620
180mm Tamron = 26cm WD @ $690
180mm Canon = 25 cm WD @ $1,300WD 10cm.
Unless you need this 60mm EF-S macro for specific uses the 100mm Canon macro is a better all around WD value and flexible use for most people. The 60mm is limited to EF-S mount Canon cameras.
I carry this 60mm macro when working in the field with no tripod, as a portable, hand hold able macro that lets me use it a moderate shutter speeds without excessive camera shake blur, as part of a portable field travel kit. It is the only Canon macro that let’s you leave on the filter while using the 14EX or 24EX macro flash units.
If you vacation/travel with a wide angle (e.g., 17-40mm) and telephoto zoom (e.g., 70-200mm f/4) this 60mm becomes the lower light lens as well as the macro.
Those of us who respect Nikkor 60mm micro Nikkor waited a long time for Canon to make one, it just happens (sadly) to be EF-S mount.

WD 15 cm.
You only pay about $40 to add 5 cm of WD from Canon's 60 to 100mm macro lens. Due to floating internal elements, the Canon 100mm has a shorter than 100 mm internal actual focal length at 1:1, likely 70-80mm, maintaining a good field of view while providing 14.9 cm WD. This is a GREAT flexible lens. 5 cm is a big 50% WD distance gain.

WD 20cm.
Pay additional $140 for another 5cm WD step gained from the Canon 100mm to the Sigma 150mm. The Sigma comes with a hood, tripod mount, HSM auto focus with full-time manual over ride (I manually focus much of the time), making it an very good middle contender, if it fits your needs. It is the first Sigma lens ever I used that contributed something important to photography performance; not another a “me-too” price-point product. Sigma4Less.com sells it reasonable.

WD 25cm.
Step up and you pay an added $700 for the next (last) 5 cm WD gained between the Sigma 150mm and the Canon 180mm. This is an amazing optic, little diffraction even when stopped down to f/22+. Ultimate WD.
The longer focal length makes it much easier to compose shots by isolating subjects, eliminating clutter, and much easier to get the lens plane position parallel to where you want the maximum depth of field on the subject.
It's big and long and prefers to be used tripod mounted, except when "butterfly hunting." Works with Canon 1.4x teleconverter as a bonus. The last macro lens you’ll ever buy.

WD 26 cm.
The Tamron is the longest WD versus price value winner, but I did not use nor consider it because a lens filter adjuster may prevent using the MT 24-EX Macro Flash.


What is Working Distance?
WD is the distance from the FRONT of lens element to the subject when the lenses are focused at their closest focus 1:1 magnification. Macro lenses all focus continuously to infinity also, but we are only calculating close focus distance above.

Calculate WD
= published close focus spec for lens - lens length - distance between rear element and sensor or film plane (which is approx. 4.4 cm for Canon EOS camera system.

Light Loss
WD is a BIG limiting use factor (in addition to the full 2 f/stops of light loss @ 1:1 magnification), so get as much WD as you can afford.

If you're serious about macro, try not to buy a macro where the lens barrel length changes during focus. For casual macro users, this is OK (like carrying the old Canon 50mm f/2.5 in a pocket out for a hike).

More Fun at Less than Life Size
When we mean macro, we mean life size reproduction, (1:1) magnification or greater. There is loads of fun "close-up" photography at less than life size, say 0.25x to 0.70x (butterfly and dragonfly hunting range) that you can do with diopters, close focusing zooms, etc. A cheap Canon XXmm-300mm zoom with a Canon 500D ($140) +2 diopter makes a good butterfly hunter, providing about 0.4-0.7x depending on focal length.

Using a wide angle lens close-up enables “a thing in its environment” close-ups,” which are useful and popular.

Hope that helps. Jack

Normally, the common street opinion is, given lenses of similar optical design, the shorter the focal length, the greater the DoF, the longer the focal length, the more distance is compressed behind the plane of focus (less DoF). But this is way too simplistic, and does not hold up under macro close focus distances with floating element macro lenses.

In general:
1. It is a struggle to obtain enough DoF under macro conditions and the lens focal length is less important than framing angle on the subject, etc.
2. Choose a macro lens for its handling, working distance, FL field of view framing, alternate uses, and NOT for perceived DoF differences.

Why?
The relationship between lens focal length and DoF - at macro magnification - is not clear, and there is no guarantee that a shorter focal length macro lens gives more DoF where you want it in a photograph than a longer FL lens. In fact, under macro conditions, the differences between shorter and longer focal length lenses may have more to do with shifting the plane of focus in front or behind the focus point depending on lens focal length. And more to do with framing the subject.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=779256#post779256
POLL
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=160960



Sent from my iPhone using Reefs
 

wnlandfo

Experienced Reefer
Location
New York
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Thanks Aquabacs! I'll look into it

Aquabacs said:
Let me let you on a little secret. There are a few online companies that rent lens. (Rentglass.com) If you need a lens for a few days to take macro photos of your aquarium, need a super telephoto for an event, or just want to test out a lens on your tank prior to spending 1k, it is a good option. Mike



Sent from my iPhone using Reefs
 

wnlandfo

Experienced Reefer
Location
New York
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
What are other great uses with the 17-40mm f4 L. Portraits? Sport photography?

bad coffee said:
I have the Canon 100. It's nice, but as Cali said, it's kinda limited. To get a FTS with it, I have to back clear across the room

Most of my tank pics are taken with my 17-40 4.0 L. It's a great lens, but isn't cheap.

B



Sent from my iPhone using Reefs
 

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