anybody here keeps kois

[deelucky]

my parents have a 125gal with kois and goldfish.there were fine a few weeks ago and now there all closed fins and basiclly motionless.i was in a rush so i couldnt run any test any advice as far as temp,ph,i know that ammonia isnt the problem,could there be anything else?

 

[Chris5]

I have a Koi pond outside in my yard, usually when they get like that winter is setting in and the temp of the water is below 55 degrees, whats your temp? How about Oxygen levels?

 

[deelucky]

i dont know oxygen level but temp is aound 75 and its not a pond its a 120 gal tank.

 

[drunktank]

when was the last water chnage? sometimes when the water quality drops they dont move much ... they are very messy fish.

try a large water change, do they put any freshwater salt in? could be something going around if they added a new fish recently.

 

[deelucky]

they do a 10% every week but i believe that it was a fish that brought it.but the wierd thing is that this is constanly happening to them.fish starts out good and active,eating good then next thing you know they start die one by one.maybe there is a specific thing that there missing.

 

[pmui]

how long has the tank been running? Nitrite poisining can do that to goldfish. You said their fins are closed, are the fins clear or there is blood in them. ho do their scales look (close to body, away from the body).

 

[Chris5]

i dont know oxygen level but temp is aound 75 and its not a pond its a 120 gal tank.

I know its not a pond, i was using that as reference to what I have and my conditions....sounds like something is def not right, our koi swim like they have a.d.d. all the time esp when its time to feed :bablefish and its a very easy fool proof setup...What kind of filtering are you using? If there isnt enough oxygen in the tank the fish get weird and gasp alot with no movement, happens when my stream stops from time to time....

 

[Quang]

are you using tap water for the water change?
do you ever condition the water before using it for the tank or at least let it sit out a few days for the chlorine to dissipate.

 

[snailpoo]

they do a 10% every week but i believe that it was a fish that brought it.but the wierd thing is that this is constanly happening to them.fish starts out good and active,eating good then next thing you know they start die one by one.maybe there is a specific thing that there missing.

!

Kois?

What's the water quality like? How many fish of each type, and how large? What's the filtration on that tank?


I know rules of thumb are mean to be stretched and broken, but this might be taking it to completely new boundaries. People tend to recommend anywhere between 10 to 20 gallons per goldfish as a minimum. The recommendation per koi is 200 to 1,000 gallons.

And while the koi might be small, they're not as domesticated as goldfish, and some varieties are less tolerant of bad water quality. Koi are also sensitive to changes in pH as well. The problem thus becomes a catch-22. You need to change the water because the water quality is bad, but if you shift the pH too much too fast, you damage the fish anyway.


I kept 1 koi, a yamabuki ogon. I bought him as a two inch fingerling and had him until he gew to 14 inches long in a year and a half. In a tank. It was difficult as hell to maintain a semblence of good water quality at the end. My six goldfish that I grew up with, on the other hand, lived in a 100 gallon tank. The oldest lived to be 15.

 

[deelucky]

well they are down to 2 kois and two goldfish at least 6" 1n 120gal,2 fluval 404.they also have three clawed frogs one which died today and 3 crayfish.i had placed them in a qt tank with medication.they feed live minnows and once the minnows are in the tank they just start to die off at a fast rate any ideas???

 

[wxl14]

I have a Koi pond outside in my yard, usually when they get like that winter is setting in and the temp of the water is below 55 degrees, whats your temp? How about Oxygen levels?

My brother is setting up a pond and I was wondering if maybe you could give me your paramaters on the setup and where you got your stuff and depth of the pond. He currently has a few kois but wants to go all out and get a pond.

 

[Chris5]

My brother is setting up a pond and I was wondering if maybe you could give me your paramaters on the setup and where you got your stuff and depth of the pond. He currently has a few kois but wants to go all out and get a pond.

Its a 500g+ Pond (not exactly sure on the gallons) but it was custom dug into the ground and filled with a pond liner...We are using a tetra extreme canister filter from Fosters and Smith made specifically for pond use and large UV lamp. We also Have a stream running down from the backside of the yard into the pond providing added oxygen..In simple terms the water is collected in the filter in the pond sent up to the canister filter via hoses run through the Uv lamp and sent back down the stream which trickles back into the pond once it reaches the end....Here are some photos early in the summer taken...

 

[KathyC]

Deelucky - any info on water tests? What is the frequency & % of water changes? Sounds like ammonia poisioning. The tank is also overstocked. Were any new Koi added recently? There is a deadly Koi disease that is turning up with a great amount of frequency and there is no cure. The name escapes me, but I will get back to you on it, perhaps in the morning if I can. Are you seeing any visible damage on the scales of the fish?

Chris - The pond is very pretty but it too is overstocked. Koi are ultra sensative to water quality as you well know. How many fish are in there? (I'm hoping some of them are reflections!!) Did they winter in the pond last year?

Wxl14 - please suggest to your brother that he purchase a good book on Koi Ponds or visit the local library. I have yet to find one that doesn't show all of the requirements and parameters. Think in the neighborhood of 200 gallons per fish. Your average Koi will grow to be about 20", never mind the big ones...and they also live a very long time. Depth of the pond - ah, another great fish debate..in this area 2 1/2 foot deep min. if you are leaving the fish in for the winter (Provide AIR & an open hole in the ice!Never break the ice with fish in the pond, the shock will kill them)


My pond is about 1700 gallons and I keep 3 Koi & a comet ( currently have way too many babies that need to go before the weather gets cooler!). I have 2 home made barrel filters and they do an outstanding job of cleaning & oxygenating the water on their returns. The pond is also heavily planted for comfort and an aid to algea control.
Will try & post some pics in the morning. (they're on a different computer)

 

[deelucky]

kathy i went over and tested but ammonia was 0ppm,nitrite 0ppm i forgot to get them a nitrate test and didnt get to test ph.i will call them later to get a ph reading.as far as water changes they do about 20% every week.oh i they use the seachem ammo alert and thats at zero,had to swith to that because they were using alot of ammo-lock and that always gave false readings.but if the seachem ammo alert wasnt working wouldn't there be some signs of nitrite?oh and thanks guys and gals for the questions/advice and postings.

 

[KathyC]

Here are a few shots of my pond from this spring..if I did it right! (thanks Ronen!)

Deelucky - how long ago did they stop using Ammolock? It takes MANY 20% water changes to get a product totally out of the water.(figure 2 months if they do them weekly)
Unless your ammonia test result is still being skewed by the Ammolock, the results don't make a lot of sense. I would expect to see some nitrite in there.
The PH reading is very important - so please post that when you get it along with the nitrate (not overly important unless it's off the charts). If the PH is in the toilet - please raise it no more than .02 per day!!

Can you find out how these guys are acting before they die? Spirals? Swimming backwards?
And these minnow - where are they coming from. Newly purchased or are they kept in a holding tank? Did you tet that water?
I would NOT introduce any more minnows if they keep dying as soon as they are fed!
Are they eating any Koi staple food?
How big are the Koi - 6" like the goldfish? And are any of these fish recently new to this tank?

The disease I mentioned yesterday is KHV- Koi Herpes Virus. It has becomes a huge problem and is usually fatal even when extraordinary measures are taken. Please Google it and learn about and see if that may be the issue here. I unfortunately don't have the time this morning - sorry!

Please post any new readings, I'll check back this evening!

 

[Chris5]

Kathy, the pond is doing great and yes they spend the winter there...we use a surface heater so it doesnt become ice filled....The problem is during the winter they spawn like you wouldnt believe, as far as overstocked if we have anymore babies youll be right sooner or later, but for now its not bad at all even though it looks like alot...we've had all of them for years, and no problems what so ever....(knock on wood)....:bablefish

 

[deelucky]

kathy-sorry i've been out all day but i will post the readings sunday,as far as minnows are concerned theyhave clawed frogs and thats what they eat so the kois would join in on the action,but before they are put in the tank we dispose of the bagged water.there down to 2 kois and 2goldfish all are 6".as far as swimming there was some swimming upside down and side ways a little before they died,which i first thought was bladder disease but im not to sure now.they do have (arg) i forgot the name starts with an "S" the bleeding streaks.but will get Ph and post again.thanks K.