Traumatic visit with a horrible vet

[jedimaster1138]

This is actually hard to talk about because it was THAT bad. Both my wife and I have had trouble sleeping and eating the last night because of this. But I want to tell people about it, get more opinions and act accordingly.

So the wife and I brought home a Golden Retriever puppy on Saturday. She's just short of 8 weeks, a little baby and a little princess. She's the model of good behavior. She's barked exactly 2 times, and spends most of the day eating sleeping and sniffing. Sure she likes to nibble on things, but she's a puppy. It's what they do. You train them not to, duh.

Anyway Monday, we went to the vet for the first time. He was recommended by someone who used to use him back a few years, or something. Anyway, I'm going to just post my wife's description of what happened because I can't really bring myself to paraphrase it or shorten etc. Actually I can barely even read it. I'm scarred.

My husband and I recently visited a veterinarian with my new 8 week old Golden Retriever female puppy for a first check up and exam. We were absolutely appalled at a test the vet did to our puppy, I've grown up with similar dogs but this is my first experience being the true owner. Upon meeting her, he put her in his arms (not petting or reassuring her of the safety) and put his folded arm around her neck (like a choke-hold), she held up her paw to his elbow. He proceeded to tell us how "dominant" this behavior was. Then, he immediately tightened his grip around her neck which she absolutely freaked out, peed on him, growled at him and squirmed out of his arms while trying to get away. This shocked both my husband and I and have talked to many people since about this method and validity. He told us we have a very dominant puppy and should have a trainer immediately to which he gave us the number of "his trainer"

It was shocking for many reasons, I'm not a naive person to thinks shes an angel but, she has taken to our lifestyle pretty well. There are a few temperamental puppy behaviors such as nipping that we will address with training, etc. She loves her crate, goes to it willingly, doesn't cry anymore when she's put in it. She's very loving, we can pick her up and move her when we feel like it. there's never been growling and she hasn't barked yet at us.

I just don't understand the validity of this test, i've read many studies of this and it seems to be an outdated practice as well as inconclusive results for long term. Should I trust this doctor, he seems very astute medically but the behavioral techniques and advice he gave us was less positive reinforcement more "repercussions", etc.

I'll add a few things of my own...

She was the model of good behavior at the office. Didn't make a sound or even squirm. She was sitting like a good little lady on the table, and had no issues being picked up or carried (and we had to carry her there because of her young age)

His "maneuver" or test or whatever he wants to call it, can best be described as a "snap choke hold". Put it this way - if I did it to you, I'd be in prison for felony assault and you would be at the doctor needing x-rays.

Penny's freak out after the "test" or "correction" lasted a good 10 minutes. He threw her into the wall, slammed his hand on the table to get her attention, and finally threw her (literally) at the assistant to take "into the back to get cleaned up". Oh and the vet was ticked off he got pee on him.

In hindsight I'm mad at myself for not calming her (and my wife) down, punching the vet in the teeth, and walking out. We sat there and let him preach to us for 15 minutes and give us his trainer's #. At least Penny got the shots she needed.

Here's the extra horrifying part...

A few hours later, I was looking for trainers online, because I was skeptical about his, and found a woman who apparently is one of the best in the city. Tons of glowing recommendations. My wife spoke to her, for more than 30 minutes about everything that had happened at the vet. She, the trainer, was horrified, and asked where/who the vet was. When my wife told her, the trainer wasn't surprised. She apparently has heard about this vet, doing this thing, to other dogs in the past and the people wind up calling her, horrified at both the action and then his "giving us the # of a good trainer" who is obviously kicking $ back to the vet. So yeah disturbing much?

I actually had another vet, who is a friend of a friend on FB confirm that his actions were BS. Along with the trainer, everyone else, and a United States Marine who handles dogs for combat situations...yeah. Clearly this is a bad scene.

I also felt awful for the assistant/nurse. She was horrified too, but had clearly from the look on her face seen that before. The doc also treated her like crap...he spoke down to her like...I don't even know what. She probably wants to keep her job that pays next to nothing, so she has to tolerate it, but was clearly working in fear. She had tears in her eyes. Of course meanwhile my wife is full on crying.

Anyway, that's my rant. I haven't mentioned the vet's name or practice here. I will gladly tell anyone who wants to know to avoid him privately if you want. He's on the Upper East Side. If the consensus is to post it here, I would have no problem doing so as well.

Bottom line - I feel compelled to do something about this guy. I can't tolerate violence against the helpless, especially a tiny little puppy who is the model of good behavior. I know the city doesn't seem to have any mechanism for this, it looks like I have to go to the state licensing board or just sue privately, or something. I dunno. But yeah....I mean it sounds like we're not crazy being horrified and wanting to get a hold of this guy's license and use it for Penny to poop on.

Speaking of, here's some pictures of my little woofer. She's mostly forgotten her horrible experience on Monday. Thank goodness for short memories.

 

[cryptics]

Post the info. Everyone should know to avoid this vet. Call and report him to the ASPCA. They have a hotline and if enough people call they will go after him.

 

[Waleedwale1]

Post the info. Everyone should know to avoid this vet. Call and report him to the ASPCA. They have a hotline and if enough people call they will go after him.

+1
Petitions go a long way as well.
Taking him to court might get his license revoked too.

 

[KathyC]

Adorable pup. Awful vet.
Why not contact one of the news organizations, maybe they can go in there with a hidden camera?

 

[cmantis]

Sounds like he (the vet) needs to be fixed!

 

[masterswimmer]

I'm mortified that anyone with any training and compassion (seriously, a vet did this) for animals could muster up the cajones to treat such an adorable little puppy like that.

+1 to Kathy's suggestion. Contact a news agency and 'out' this guy.

Russ

PS - Best of luck with your new little bundle. She's a doll.

 

[Arati]

a dominant female golden retriever puppy? come on'

what a terrible human being that vet it is.

 

[saltwaterinbrooklyn]

Call PETA and form a group of friends and family to picket outside his office I would gladly devote a few hours to go myself , on top of that ..................... I would love to put this piece of $&@/ in a f$@&?!? kamora or armbar until he's crying on the curb at which point I would take a heavy metal ladle spoon and smack him in the mouth repeatedly until his teeth are chipped rendering him unable to smile again and perhaps I may stand him up and walk him to his car and place his head in the door jam and give it one good swing and slowly drag him to a stop sign and handcuff him with his hand around the back of his head and kick him in the ribs and armpits till he can't gasp for air from the pain......... That's for starters .

Feel free to send me his name and office number and location , I hold animal abuse very closely to child abuse , and if you want to hurt a defenseless life your just asking for it , and sometimes you may get what you ask for !

 

[lnevo]

+1

 

[jedimaster1138]

Thank you *A LOT* everyone for your kind and strong words. This has basically helped me decide to not just let this drop. He's going to get the Shock and Awe treatment now. I actually feel a sense of duty to bring the hammer of thor down on him. If I let this go, I feel like I'm enabling further abuse of other animals and I can't do that.

I have a few people investigating the various avenues we have to attack this guy, including reporting him to every agency there is. I already have an email out to one of them and have a friend going to see his vet on Thursday with a printed copy of my story. He's apparently a respected vet in NYC. Once I hear back on those, and a few others, I'll report back here.

For now I'm not going to post his info, because I don't want him to see this coming, especially the part where the State comes to take his license. Depending on how it all proceeds though, you'll all get his name soon enough. Hell, I can even provide a picture of the *****.

SaltwaterinBrooklyn - I like where your head is at, brother. I have zero tolerance for violence against the helpless: children, the elderly and animals. No one gets to mess with them, ever, period.

It's ironically, probably good that his actions shocked me the way they did, otherwise I might be typing this email from Rikers because I took the guy's head off. I've been known to have a Papa Bear like temper. He deserves a nice curb stomp.

 

[skene]

Partially I understand where you are coming from with caring about the well being of your new pet. Sometimes it's hard to draw a line between what you think they should do, and what they need to do.
I don't happen to feel the vet did such a bad thing, because he's not around to see what the dog's behavior is like when at home. Reaction to what a dog's demeanor is when it feels threatened is what he was probably trying to do in a forced situation.

Seriously now... PETA...? He's not killing the dog. He probably sees hundreds of dogs a week for a few minutes/hours in their lifetime. You... on the other hand give attention to your dog(s) for their lifetime. What he sees now is probably going to dictate an untrained dog for the rest of it's life.

It's just like punishing a kid when he's bad. Up until the 90s you could spank your kid and guess what... it worked! They learned right and wrong through discipline. Now you put a kid in a timeout and give him/her a gift for being bad... what did the kid learn? Nothing. They go on though life the same way thinking things should get handed to them.

Now I'm not saying it's ok to beat your dog into a bloody pulp. But if you go on thinking that a dog will learn not to pee in the house, without putting the dog's nose into it.. or chew on your furniture because you said "No" then reward it later, then you would be far mistaken my friend.

 

[JimmyR1rider]

Sorry the ***** did that to your pup. Good thing is he probably already forgot it happened. Worse comes to worse she will not like him whenever she sees him. I'd definitely find a great vet and take her into the office the first few times for "fun" visits. She'll get to meet the staff and get to play with them and get loved on. This way shell associate the vets office with good times. I did that with my girls I have now and they LOVED my vet on LI. Now I have to do it with what vet I choose here in PA.

There is another extremely easy test to see how dominant or "tough" she'll be to give up the alpha role. All you have to do is hold the puppy in your arms belly up. The more they struggle and figit to get right side up is how much of a fight they'll give. If she just lays there and looks around you have an extremely submissive pup. Either way there was no need to do what the vet did.

 

[jedimaster1138]

Skene and I will have to agree to disagree. I mean I get what you are saying, but what the vet did was over the top. I'm not getting PETA involved, they are nuts and will probably yell at me about my leather shoes or for "keeping a dog" in the first place. This is the organization that would protect cockroaches if it could after all. But the agencies that allow this dude to practice medicine...yeah they are going to hear from me and already have. He shouldn't be touching other people's animals, ever.

Sorry the ***** did that to your pup. Good thing is he probably already forgot it happened. Worse comes to worse she will not like him whenever she sees him. I'd definitely find a great vet and take her into the office the first few times for "fun" visits. She'll get to meet the staff and get to play with them and get loved on. This way shell associate the vets office with good times. I did that with my girls I have now and they LOVED my vet on LI. Now I have to do it with what vet I choose here in PA.

Yeah that's what I'm hoping for. We're never seeing that vet again, it goes without saying. My wife did read this today, which has me slightly worried. We still shower her with love though so I'm hoping Monday is forgotten, also because we're just shy of 8 weeks.

Fear-Impact Period: During the 2nd Socialization Period, when your puppy is around 8-11 weeks of age, it is important to be aware of what is known as a Fear-Impact Period. If puppies have ?bad? or scary experiences during this time, the impressions are likely to last a lifetime and resurface during maturity. So, protect your puppy from these long-term effects by avoiding bad experiences. Should your puppy become afraid for any reason, dangerous or not, immediately step in and remove him/her from the situation. That is good parenting!

Interesting stuff.

There is another extremely easy test to see how dominant or "tough" she'll be to give up the alpha role. All you have to do is hold the puppy in your arms belly up. The more they struggle and figit to get right side up is how much of a fight they'll give. If she just lays there and looks around you have an extremely submissive pup. Either way there was no need to do what the vet did.

Yup, I already do this with her. At first she was confused, almost with a look of "how did I get like this?" now I dare say she enjoys it. She used to wiggle and squirm some, the first few times, now she mostly just lays there with a look of "now what - where to?". Heh. Because we can't take her out out for walks etc, we've been carrying her around the building to meet the doormen and generally just see the sites from the safety of our arms. She has no issues being carried whatsoever or in any position. Even the elevator doesn't scare her (though it does scare me when it hiccups like it did this morning...mutter)

When I do the roll over on the floor I can follow it up by dragging her around by her front paws as if she was a mop and she's entertained. Now she even rolls over proactively for the belly rub and lays there prone.

Her latest change is the normal happy puppy nipping has already subsided some, though I assume it will start again when she teethes. Last night and today I was able to put fingers or my hand in her mouth and she would just lick it - no chomping, not even lightly. I think she's learning who the boss is.

 

[JimmyR1rider]

Good. Labs are generally sweethearts. Once she has her second round of shots you can socialize her. It's extremely important. Once about a week passes after the second round bring her everywhere and start leash training and in my eyes THE MOST IMPORTANT- especially if you have or are going to have kids is:

FOOD AGRESSION- what I always do and it always works and you can start it at any age is while she's eating reach into her bowl and take a handful of food out. She'll look at you like REALLY?! Then immediately tell her good girl and put the handful you took out plus an extra back in. This way even if a kid doesnit shell see it as no big deal. It also helps with the whole alpha thing. Good luck with her. She looks adorable and you're sure to have a great many years with her.

 

[pbjelly]

I suggest you post a negative review on Yelp. It may not give you as much satisfaction as some of the other suggestions, but it is a very effective way of informing others who are in the process of choosing a vet in your neighborhood.
It's also very difficult in a service oriented business to make bad reviews go away. He may think twice before engaging in this type of behavior again if it affects his bottom line.
BTW - your new baby is absolutely adorable :dog2: