trouble cycling new nano

[ccny]

Hi all, I'm basically new to this completely but decided to get a JBJ Nano Cube. I put in about 20 lb live sand and now 9 lb of live rock. I first put in 2 yelow belly damsels and one was much bigger so it basically was bullied to death. The other lived for 3 days and then died.

I freaked out cause I tested water every day and the ammonia was never >0.5 ppm and nitrate never more than 10 ppm. I let the tank settle for one week and got another damsel, this time a blue.

It's now only one day and it's breathing is labored. The pH and temp are usually 8.0-8.4 and 78 to 80 degrees. The ammonia was 0.5, nitrite 0.25, and nitrate 10. I panicked and did a 25% water change.

Am I doing something wrong? Should I just keep replacing the fish to keep the cycle going if it dies? Or should I just leave a dead fish in a tank to let the ammonia from that cycle the tank?

Sorry about the long post but getting a bit upset that 2 fish died and now another is headed for that deep pool in the sky.

 

[brandon4291]

Sorry about the initial troubles ccny, we'll get it fixed.

From what I see in these nano cubes, there may not be enough seeded surface area in them when they are new--at least not enough to make up for being unskimmed and holding that many fish. It is likely that waste components, food particles and their breakdown components are accumulating at various stages of oxidization. What you need to do specifically is remove waste producers for awhile or go with one tiny small fish. At this point add more live rock, fill it up to the top along the back or something but try to work in critical suface area, each frag of live rock contributes much. Feed lighter and install one more internal powerhead, I recommend a minijet 14 set on med/hi mode. In two weeks it will be ready for one fish, in another week one more.

Once you address issues with bioload, current, surface area and water maintenance, forms of nitrogen (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) will reach the correct balance within a week or two. Also, I want to relay something I read from Dr. Shimek to you. He once took part in a 15 page thread debating whether or not ammonia supplies (dead shrimp, fish etc) are needed in tank cycling, and provided significant proof they are unnecessary and in fact could contribute to early algae problems. He mentioned that most tank turnover rates and surface area can handle a piece of dead meat if need be, but the provisions were not necessary because LR houses populations of growing/dying organisms (NH3 source)and rock skeletal structures contain bits of encapsulated protein and minerals such as phosphate, calcium and carbonate. This is all enough to cycle the tank and prepare it for slow fish acclimation.

brandon429

 

[ccny]

thanks for the welcome and the reply. it's good to be reassured. i'm starting to think that the small tank is actually much harder than the big tank. i'll probably add more live rock to make it about 9 pounds in the tank.

about the minijet 14, is that hard to do? do i have to cut anything to make space for it? unfortunately, i'm not the most hands on person in the world.

 

[brandon4291]

No, it can be suction-cupped to the inside glass or even set among the rockwork somewhere. Basically any powerhead model that will lend a little bit more current (along with the supplied powerhead in the compartment) will help your oxidation rates, as current is a major factor in exposing waste compounds to the beneficial bacteria on your LR>

good luck, it won't be hard to fix once you reduce the fish bioload for the early stages of cycling!
B

 

[ccny]

Here's an update. The poor fish died. The recently added LR must have been too much stress. I'm starting to wonder about my test kit though. After the fish died, the readings weren't all that bad:

pH 8.2
Amm 0.25
Ni 0
Na 5 maybe 10

I got a bit frustrated and took out the sponge cubes in the back as well as the ceramic and carbon. I'm planning on putting more LR back there and adding a minijet (404?) to the inside of the tank on the back wall to help flow the current a bit. I'm wondering if I should put LS in the back also and maybe break down the compartment walls. Am I overreacting?

 

[brandon4291]

No I would be concerned as well if it were my tank! your tank will be fine after things even out. Taking the fish out was the first move, then increasing the circulation with any extra powerhead. My recommendation for live rock would be stacking up the rear 1/3 of the tank from top to bottom, leaving the front 2/3's available for swimming and coral stocking space. This is enough to process the waste from two small fish, the most I would use in here at this point. Also, leave out live sand from the back division, it tends to collect detritus and won't be visible back there making it not worth the risk.

If you use live sand in the main display, I would recommend siphoning detritus out of the sand every month or so to remove fouling. In this case I would work more for a shallow bed, for looks, rather than a deeper one which is more challenging in the long run.

Brandon M.

 

[bdelaney]

I would suggest letting the tank stabilize for a little bit. Another small piece of live rock will help give some extra filtration capacity. Have patience and let the tank reach an equillibrium. After that you can add a small fish. Keep in mind that even though damsels are hardy fish, they are very territorial. Keeping more than one in a small tank like the nano cube can be very stressful for them. Yes, small tanks have some unique challenges, but with a little patience (and a lot of reading) you can be successful. There are any number of things you can do with the back filtration compartment, but my nano cube is running fine with the ceramic pieces, bio-balls, carbon, and sponges. If you leave the sponges in place, be sure to take them out and rinse them at least once a week, preferably more often during the initial cycle. In another month or two, I'll probably vacuum any accumulated detrius out of the back compartment.

 

[ccny]

thanks for the help guys. iwent to the LFS and got a minijet 4 and some more LR and put it on the back wall of the tank. roughly 16 pounds of rock in the tank altogether. i was almost ready to get more LS but thought better of it after brandon's suggestion.

it's funny, i mentioned the dead fish to a guy at the store and he said i should have buried it into the gravel/sand. i've been reading the site and i'm pretty sure most people here would disagree. to be fair, another, seemingly more experienced guy at the store laughed at the suggestion and said, "well, then why don;t you buy some shrimp in the supermarket and drop it in the tank. it's the same thing. just be patient with the LR."

needless to say, i didn't get any shrimp.

i guess i'll let everything settle for a couple of weeks and wait for everything to zero out again. then we'll see if i can sustain anything in the tank.

by the way, how do i vacuum the detritus? do i need special equipment?