Help with frogspawn

[orangeturtle]

This is a kind of long post, but I wanted to give all the info that might be important. 8O

I have a JBJ Nanocube. It's been running for about a month and a half and has happily been home to the following creatures:
1 purple fishfish (added the week or so before xmas)
1 fire shrimp
1 cleaner shrimp (a free stowaway in my live rock!)
1 turbo snail
1 anemone crab
3 blue leg hermit crabs
1 tri-color hammer branch (added at the same time as the firefish and it's flourishing)

On Saturday, I purchased a small green frogspawn branch and some mushrooms. I fed my inhabitants their brine shrimp and by the morning, the frogspawn was completely out and waving in the current.

Sunday, the frogspawn continued to be in good form and dinner was some pellets for my fish and some brine shrimp for the inverts.

Monday, I fed them their mysid shrimp dinner.

When I got home from work today (and I didn't check the tank when I left this morning), the frogspawn was completely tucked in. Everyone else in the tank looks happy. I just fed them their brine shrimp and the frogspawn is still completely in.

I just ran some tests and here are the results:
temp: 78 degrees F (this has been steady for like a month)
nitrate: <0.3 mg/l
ammonia: 0 mg/l

Does anyone have any ideas if I'm doing something wrong or if this is normal? Sorry, no digicam so I can't post any pictures.

Thanks for reading!

 

[brandon4291]

Welcome to our site OrangeTurtle and thanks for posting, we'd love to see any pics of your new setup as they become available. As long as your tests are okay, and you are seeing normal polyp behavior from the other corals I say your FS is fine, it was probably picked at by one of your shrimp or fish when some stray food particles fell in it's polyp. That particular head may have also decided to close upon the food, keeping it for itself.

I come home every now and then and find one head of my hammer curled up while the other one is extended, then I look to my zoanthids for general tank indications. Sure enough, if they are closed up as well there is likely a small salinity problem or something similar, but when they are open and the hammer is still curled I can usually find a shrimp somewhere nearby--greedy rascal!

 

[orangeturtle]

Thanks for your reply, Brandon!

As it turns out, the frogspawn was half out this morning when I left for work (it was still night to the FS) and was completely out when I got home today. I guess my inquisitive fire shrimp got too close.

A quick question about salinity...
My hydrometer never gives a reading that is actually on the container (it always is above .3) and it says that it can't be zeroed with tap water. Is there really a way to test salinity and (here's the stupid question) should I be concerned about my salinity at all?

I get all my saltwater pre-mixed from my LFS. I only add it when I have to acclimate new purchases and I top off with distilled water.

Thanks!

 

[brandon4291]

Here's a long one, felt like typing tonite

If they say it is reef-ready prep (1.024-26 specific gravity) it's likely okay untested, as long as you store it well-capped or only buy it when you are topping off and will use it. Evaporation would clearly increase salt concentrations...

Many stores including my local one keep their system water at lower densities (1.021-24) to put osmotic pressure on parasites and pathogens. My reef animals did not like this water when I once tried to run my nano without a hydrometer. I suggest getting a $10 swingarm meter from any reputable brand, though many don't like them and opt for pricey refractometers. I have got along fine with them. This is a must have for nano reef keeping, you need to use it to watch your evaporation changes (chart them) to set your topoff rate. The easiest way in your system is to fill up water you have tested to be at 1.024-.025, mark the water line on the outside with a magic marker. Don't let it fall more than 1/2 inch, and only fill it up 1/4 inch at a time (4 hours between at least) back towards the original mark. Ideally, top off back to the original mark every 1/4 inch of evaporation.
To successfully keep those corals you mentioned, long term, you will need to buy:

-Hydrometer
-Distilled water for freshwater topoffs
-calcium and alkalinity additions (I recommend two-part additives)
-calcium and alk test kits
-pH test kit

There is no other practical way to start a nano than with these required items. You are off to a great start, but sooner or later you will have to miss a trip to the LFS and you'll want to know how high your SG is going, or perhaps you'll get salt-creep on the back lid and it won't affect SG all that much as water evaporates and creeps out...then your distilled water will be too potent. without these test kits/equipment you'll never know and eventually the nano can be stressed.

Your dosing schedule controls and affects the pH and coral growth, no way to add Alk/high pH supplements without the right test kit. Bottle directions are blah in nanos... same from Ca++.
All calcium and alkalinity additions with liquid dosers should be done in the morning, just before lights on. You can stress coral tissue markedly by adding alkalinity supplements in the afternoon just before lights off. I have caused SDR in acroporids and montipora by doing this. In my world, the JBJ nano cube is quite large and more forgiving of these dosings and swings than smaller nanos. it is a good idea to get with a dosing schedule now though, especially if you enjoy keeping stony corals. You'll end up filling it up with them!

 

[Anonymous]

If it's not there already, put that coral as close to the light as you can get it. It needs a LOT of light, as well as all the things B mentioned. FWIW, I wouldn't add any other corals (or fish) for at least a few months. One month is really a bit early to add *any* coral, let alone a stony coral. Good luck.

Matt

 

[orangeturtle]

thanks so much for your input. i really appreciate it. i have julian's sprung's coral book, but i've found that it's not really so great for actual "what i need and how to take care of" facts. i'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of eric borneman's aquarium corals and anthony calfo's book of coral propagation, vol 1. i hope they will have more detailed info about the care corals need. if you have any further suggestions of coral books to buy, i would really appreciate it.

my lfs states that the pre-mixed water they sell me is 1.025. my hydrometer is from seatest. is that a good one? i also went out and got some seachem "raises calcium, maintains strontium and magnesium," "raises iodide," and some reef buffer stuff that raises the pH no higher than 8.3. my lfs also said to use some stuff called reef vital dna. i haven't started using it yet, but everyone said it was great stuff.

i already have one of those testing kits with the basics: pH, alkalinity, nitrite, ammonia, and... something else. i'm going to find some cheaper calcium tests online because the ones at my lfs were $50 and that seems exhorbitant. i've heard you can't really test iodide. is that true? also, should i buy magnesium and strontium tests? my lfs said the frogspawn really needs these thingsto stay healthy.

i moved my frogspawn closer to the light and more in the current. some of his tentacles seemed to be a little more spread out than before. i hope that's a good sign. my tri-color hammer continues to look well and even looks like it's growing some small hammers. the day after i added the iodide, my very dirty anemone crab shed her shell. looks like she was waiting for me to add it.

sorry for all the questions and thanks for taking the time to help out a newbie!

 

[Anonymous]

OT, I'm afraid you've been given some misleading info regarding trace element levels by your LFS. My current method of replenishing trace elements is to do water changes--nothing more. There is absolutely no need to dose with trace elements if you're doing regular water changes; for me this is around once a week, maybe 5% of the water. It is very, very difficult to test for some of the elements, as well as time consuming. Also, some of these elements can actually be harmful if overdosed. I find it infinitely easier to mix up a small amount of water (even easier on a nano) and just change it, knowing that all the elements are in the correct proportions in the new water. If you want to spend time and money with additives and test kits, your LFS will love you for it

The one exception to this rule is Ca/Alk, especially in a tank containing stony corals. Calcium and alkalinity can be maintained a number of different ways: Kalk, 2 part additives, etc. All have their merits and you should look into them a bit before deciding to purchase. Personally, I prefer Kalk. Brandon uses a 2 part additive. Both will work fine.

It is worth it to buy high quality test kits for the necessities though. I use a digital pH monitor, refractometer for salinity, a digital thermometer from Radio Shack (calibrated to a lab grade therm.) and Salifert brand test kits for Ca and Alk. Most hydrometers are terribly inaccurate. If you can find someone with a refractometer that you can compare it to, it can't hurt.

 

[orangeturtle]

Hi Matt,

I feel confused. I could just add like a 1/2 gallon of water for my tank each week (about the amount I need to top off, actually) and that would replenish all my trace elements? What kind of water do I use? Distilled? And this replaces Calcium, Magnesium, Strontium, and Iodide? 8O

I would certainly love to avoid buying expensive additives if I don't have to!

Thanks again!

 

[nanocat]

I have to agree with Matt. I don't do any supplements at all in my nano cube, but I do regular 2.5g. water changes weekly. I depend on the new water to keep my levels good. Since I have torch, hammer, fox, and 2 frogspawns now, I'm about to start a kalkwasser drip, but that's about all.

My hammer is about midtank. Frankly it's fine, but I don't get the polyp extention that I do from the other LPS.

 

[Lostmind]

Hi Matt,

I feel confused. I could just add like a 1/2 gallon of water for my tank each week (about the amount I need to top off, actually) and that would replenish all my trace elements? What kind of water do I use? Distilled? And this replaces Calcium, Magnesium, Strontium, and Iodide? 8O

I would certainly love to avoid buying expensive additives if I don't have to!

Thanks again!

Actually, no.

What you are talking about is top off. Top off replaces evaporated water. Salt doesnt evaporate so you only need to add fresh water. I use ro/di water for topoffs.

What Matt is referring to is actually removing some tank water and replacing that water with fresh saltwater. This is called a water change and many people recommend you do a water change regularily. Most people recommend a fairly substantial water change - perhaps 10-20% of your total water volume.

Luckily for you and your nano, a water change is relatively simple because of the small volume of water you have. You can simply take a gallon jug, remove a gallon from your tank and toss it out, add a gallon of fresh saltwater back to the tank and voila - you've replenished all your trace elements without having to buy expensive additives

 

[Anonymous]

Nail on the head. Most folks advocate an average of around 1% of your total water volume daily. This means you could change about 5% a week, or 20% monthly. I feel that smaller, more regular water changes are less stressful on the animals. I know some folks who have taken it to the extreme and are doing *continuous* water changes with a dosing pump; that is, every minute or so a small amount of water is replaced in their system.

If you're only keeping soft corals, water changes are probably adequate to replace *all* elements. Stony corals usually require Ca/Alk additions. The only way to know for sure is to buy a good Ca/Alk test kit.

As for topoff water, distilled is the best way to go. I happen to use tap water, because I don't do much topoff and my local tap is a bit high in Ca/Alk (note: this is only on my 12, with softies. My 6 g stony tank evaporates much more and I use Kalk as topoff)...IME, the nanocube only evaporates about a cup of water a week or so. I think a gallon of distilled water would probably last a month.