my cycle is, er, stuck

[katydidit]

After nearly six months of reading and careful planning, I started my nano 2 weeks ago to this day. Just to give you guys some background here are my tank specs:
7g minibow
32watt CSL retrofit
ebo jager 50 watt heater
penguin mini (for circulation only)
9 lbs fiji LR
2 lbs tonga lalo LR
10 lbs sand (aragonite, not live)

Like i said, I started this tank 2 weeks ago, and well, nothing is really happening. Nothing has changed except that my ammonia levels are at .25 ppm, which is incredibly low given the time that has gone by. I have always been told that a tank will cycle on its own once LR is introduced and bacteria is given off...was I mislead in thinking this would start my cycle? One thing I should note is that I'm using Red Seas marine lab test kit (from what I have heard, isnt the most reliable).

Should I be worried about how slow this is going? Is this normal? And, could my test kit be *THAT* off?

Thanks in advance

Katy

 

[brandon4291]

Welcome Katy to our site and thanks for posting

I for one would have to go with the faulty test kit. Your setup does not describe an origination point for that much ammonia, by that much I mean enough production of ammonia to overcome the surface area and existing bacteria you would have on your fiji and tonga rock. Even if the bacteria did die off for some reason upon introduction to your tank (new tanks have less bacteria food) they would surely reseed enough by now to oxidize the minute amounts of waste you would still have. If the test kit still reads this 2 hours after a water change then Id be sure its suspect.

HTH
Brandon

 

[UnderGrad]

Katy,
In what order did you add everything? And did you pick up your LR locally or mail order? I'd try seeding your sand with some from someone else's tank to see if that might help gets things going. Might want to try getting a cheap frag of something or a shroom to "test" your waters too. HTH.

-AM-

 

[katydidit]

I first put in the water, then the LR, and then I poured the sand around the LR. I actually bought the LR from one of the best LFS's in town...and probably one of the most life based LR I've ever seen. I'm actually going this weekend to let them test my water for me, I have a feeling its the test kit.

So brandon, are you saying that the live rock isnt giving enough bacteria to start the cycle? And if not, should I go ahead and add a cocktail shrimp now or not? The cycle in any other tank has been tedious enough, but this just goes way too far.

Also, undergrad, by saying get a shroom to test the water with, does that mean basically see if it dies or not? LOL. I'm sorry if I sound like a complete amateur, and I'm sure I do to you guys, but I just want to make sure everything is perfect before I even think about adding livestock.

Thanks...

 

[UnderGrad]

I'm sorry if I sound like a complete amateur, and I'm sure I do to you guys

He he... I've only been in this hobby for about a year now and I still consider myself an amatuer. I learn something new about this hobby almost everyday!

I wouldn't add the cocktail shrimp now. Its better to "seed" your sand with bacteria by first letting it sit in bucket of salt water with the cocktail shrimp in it for about 2-3 weeks, then add it to your tank along with the LR. If you're not seeing sandstorms when you stir up the sand like you probably saw when you first put the sand in, your sand should be fine now.

Also, undergrad, by saying get a shroom to test the water with, does that mean basically see if it dies or not?

Yep. If you're anywhere near Central California, I'd be more than happy to donate some xenia to test out your water and some sand to seed yours with a bit more diversity. I used to test my water weekly the first month I had my tank set up, but I haven't since. I just watch out for the general health of the tank. If something seems to be behaving differently for more than a couple of days, I do a water change. If that doesn't work, then thats when I have the emergency test kits to get to the root of the problem.

Anyways, it sounds like you've planned this tank very well and don't forget to post up some pics of it. HTH.

-AM-

 

[katydidit]

I'm actually from fresno, so very close to davis :wink: . And as per request (got a digital today...finally) here is a pic of the tank...

 

[bdelaney]

That's a nice start. Thanks for the picture.

You mention that the live rock was high quality. It could be that there was little to no die-off on the rock to start the cycle. Typically when adding uncured rock to a new tank, there is quite a bit of life on the rock that dies off from the stress of shipping, acclimation, etc. This causes an ammonia spike and the cycle begins. The ammonia spike in your tank may just be very small since there was little die-off on your rock. Give it some time, and the tank will mature on its own. Add livestock slowly and carefully monitor the water parameters and health of the new additions until things are more stable.

 

[UnderGrad]

Lookin good so far! I'd recommend getting a digital temp. display though. You'll find that your thermometer will get covered in algae and stuff if you don't clean it regularly making it impossible to read. Radio Shack sells aquatic temp probes for spas for around $20 - $30.

My fiancee has a tank in Manteca. If you're ever in the Modesto or Turlock area, I'd be more than happy to give you some sand and other critters to help seed your tank (I'm down there at least every other weekend). We've also got lots of extra feather and razor caulerpa too.

-AM-

 

[katydidit]

Give it some time, and the tank will mature on its own. Add livestock slowly and carefully monitor the water parameters and health of the new additions until things are more stable.

So should I wait for the 'so called cycle' to finish, or will nothing happen, so I should add livestock I'm confused (yet again...). I'm going to the LFS today, I've had class all morning, so hopefully I can get some kind of answer. And I think that you may be right about the LR being cured and not having much die off. Although I did lose two feather dusters from the start that clung to the rock, I'm sure that doesnt really matter.

Undergrad...
PM me whenever you drive down there. I would love to get some critters...and even better LS. I dont mind driving, as I dont really know anyone here who has a set up reef tank in fresno (just moved here for school). So whenever you'll be down just let me know!

 

[bdelaney]

So should I wait for the 'so called cycle' to finish, or will nothing happen, so I should add livestock I'm confused (yet again...). I'm going to the LFS today, I've had class all morning, so hopefully I can get some kind of answer. And I think that you may be right about the LR being cured and not having much die off. Although I did lose two feather dusters from the start that clung to the rock, I'm sure that doesnt really matter.

Well, since your tank has been set up and running for a few weeks now, you should be ready for some hardy invertebrates or a small fish. I'b be surprised if you really had traces of ammonia after two weeks. Brandon is probably right about the faulty test kit. It happens sometimes.

Have you decided what type of critters you might like to keep? It's always nice to have a stocking plan before you start buying livestock. You can always start with a cleanup crew like some small hermits or snails. I'm finding that coral and fish selection can be a bit tricky for small tanks.

 

[UnderGrad]

Will do! I hope you have someone to visit up here though; its about a 2-3 hour drive (one-way). I've seen one or two other reefers (can't remember their names though) on this board from Fresno, so keep your eyes peeled and I'm sure you'll find them.

I agree bdelaney... go get yourself a couple inverts. If you decide to go with a fish, make sure its one that you want to keep in there!

-AM-

 

[katydidit]

YAY! I went to the LFS today to just get my water tested (or so I thought). Turns out my cycle is at the end...no trace of nitrites and my nitrates were at 20 ppm...sooo I got me a clownfish and a cleaner shrimp. The tank looks so much cooler now. I'll post a pic in a second. The percula is still a baby, I love em when theyre that small.

 

[katydidit]

the little freaks wouldnt stay still for longer than 2 secons, so this is the best I have for now...

 

[katydidit]

Just added some more, an update of sorts.
I just bought a green ricordia, red sea xenia and a little shroom (who is on the other side of the rock, any idea of how to move him?) as a hitch hiker that the guy didnt know about.

I also got a fighting conch, turbo snail and 4 mexican hermits.

Well, here is the pic of the whole tank...

 

[brandon4291]

Hey, the tank is looking great.

Two options come to mind for corallimorph relocation:

1. Take out rock and sit it on a sterile surface, then use a hammer and chisel (a well-washed new screwdriver is fine) to gently whack around the area, and you can chip off a tiny sliver of LR with the shriveled shroom attached. Put the rock back in the water after you are finished, there will be no harm.

2. Or, you can leave said corallimorph in place and let it get used to your tank and its current light/spacing and then cut it off after two months. Any stalk you leave behind will regrow a new mushroom, guaranteed. When established, rough pruning will not harm healthy mushrooms. Attached bits can reform easily 5 new shrooms out of one, done it many times. The tank and fish look great so far, the shroom will likely be okay either way you choose to move it.

Brandon M.

 

[brandon4291]

Katy, I would strongly recommend buying an additive called C-Balance from a reputable place called www.aquaticeco.com <--- I have seen this solution alone run a reef system with regular partial water changes. If you have already purchased a calcium and alkalinity dosing system its all fine, but these are balanced and seem to resist precipitation (white cloud water) when dosed heavily.

I find it easy to add two capfulls per week to my system and maintain sufficient levels to grow SPS. In your system, it would require 1-2 capfulls a day of additive, but the additive is in two separate bottles marked A and B and you would alternate them such as: Mon-A Tue-B Wed-Skip Thurs-A Fri-B skip Sat and Sun. by not adding them on the same day you reduce risk of nano-reef precipitation.
This is still not very much to add and C-Balance is cheap.

Also, the lighting you have is sufficient but don't write off the idea of buying one more 32w just like that for the finished reef. That will let you keep any species of photosynthetic coral one would have practical access to. This makes me want to get a 7g like Ive said ten times. Don't you agree Katy, the way the bow magnifies the reef area is outstanding.

 

[katydidit]

Oh my gosh, I know what you mean brandon...the bow really does make it expand. And I do plan on building a custom hood for either another 32w or maybe even a 75w MH pendant (*maybe on the MH*). But as of right now, I'm sticking to softies. I want to get a GSP colony and some zoos...just waiting for the next paycheck to come in. So right now I'm dosing with saliferts trace soft and natural iodine. Once I move up to LPS (SPS doesnt really strike my interest), I will start dosing with calcium and the like. Right now the only thing that is killing me is that there is a beautiful candy coral at my LFS, I'm dying to get it, but I want to wait til I get used to softies first...

And about the shroom, I think I may just let it adjust, and if it multiplies on its own, great, if not then I might have to cut it.

One more question (hehe, sorry). My hairy mushroom opened right up, but my xenia looks droopy...is it just stressed from the move and will recover?

 

[brandon4291]

Xenia is touchy like that, especially in a newly-setup system. Don't feel discouraged if it shrivels up, turns blue and dies off. When the tank is more established a new colony will thrive and likely become weeds like shrooms can in an established system. The candy coral (caulastrea) is also very hardy, but will need some light calcium and alkalinity dosing. You may also find that without some alkalinity addition, your pH can have some minor swings and pink algae won't be as vigorous. Id still find a buffer additive and use it so the coralline can take off, and at that point a candy coral placed midway in the system should also do just fine.

We like questions in here, gives us a chance to express consultive geekness which I relish greatly.

 

[katydidit]

The xenia is happy today (thank god). And let me tell you, my algae is nil right now thanks to those crazy little hermit crabs!

I do have a question for you however...
My hairy mushroom appears to be expelling a brown substance from his mouth. Is this normal? I placed him yesterday, so is this just stress? I can post a picture if necessary, but if its a commonality, I'd rather just get info.

AND I found an aipstasia makings its way towards my xenia :evil: . I'm pissed, and have read about them many times, but is it a huge deal for one to be present, or should I do away with him asap?

 

[Anonymous]

The "brown substance" is probably undigested food. Anemones emit this as well. Nothing to worry about. When mushrooms show their mesenterial filaments, (they look like white coils that come out of their mouth), it means they're stressed.

Do away with the Aiptasia, if possible. IME, so called "pests" like hydroids and Aiptasia anemones are very slow to reproduce in a healthy reef system, but it's better to catch them early in any event.