Who's up for an experiment?

[skylsdale]

About a year we had this discussion about the relevancy of DSB's in nanos: http://www.aqualinkwebforum.com/6/ubb.x ... 8266031522

It was brought up that it would be interesting to do an experiment where several hobbyists each run a 10 gal system and we do sort of a "controlled" experiment to see what results are achieved. I know the nanokeepers on this board are all about pushing the limits, and so are many of the hobbyists over at Aqualink. I've got a thread running over there to see what kind of interest there is and to find out if we can even get a big enough group together to make it "worth our while." There are still some things that need to be hashed out--specifics within the trial--but for now I'm trying to see what kind of interest there is here.

Any of you who are interested are more than welcome to hop aboard to see what we can find out, offer constructive suggestions, etc. Here's the link if you're interested: http://www.aqualinkwebforum.com/6/ubb.x ... 8966074262

Let me know!

 

[wombat1]

I'm interested. It would be impossible, though, to duplicate tank conditions among several hobbyists. People use different pumps, substrates, test kits, salt brands, etc. Even if you could have every one buy the same exact equipment, each hobbyist would have to set up at least 5 tanks to make it scientific. The results would have to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

The way I see this whole argument is this: "A nano's DSB does not offer enough volume to sustain a diverse population of infauna". This has already been said by Dr. Ron about larger tanks as well. A reseeding of the bed every year or so is advised to keep a diverse group of sand bed stirrers. So the only disadvantage with a DSB in a nano is that you may have to do this more often. Other than that I don't see why a DSB in a 5 gallon tank wouldn't work just as well as one in a 180 gallon tank. Just my 2 cents...

 

[skylsdale]

I've been mulling this over today, and like you've said, it would be pretty difficult to try and get any sort of conclusive experiment accomplished. My original gripe was that the term "DSB" was thrown around way too much...and people seemed to be forgetting the true purpose of them: to create anaerobic zones to aid in denitrification. Just because the sandbed seemed "deep" doesn't mean that it's a functioning DSB. Make sense? Like you said, you could have a DSB in a 5 gal tank...but who's going to put down a 5-6" sandbed in a 5 gal tank...or whatever depth it takes to significantly aid in denitrification. So my theory was to get some people running some 10 gal tanks with varying sandbed depths (possibly with very similar grain sizes, if not the same brand) and test the nutrient introduction and see which depths would handle it and which wouldn't. I guess it would be more like a project of collective experiences rather than a controlled experiment.

Oh well....on to the next project.

 

[wombat1]

...but who's going to put down a 5-6" sandbed in a 5 gal tank...

I did! Well, 4.5 inches, but close enough. I think it's a great idea to have lots of folks collaborate on, and since it seems more and more folks are going "nano" you can probably get lots of help.

Rob Toonen's doing some experiments right now that I think might answer some of these questions when he publishes in the near future.

 

[BallPy]

I am game if you get this going.

 

[reefann]

I to would participate if things get off the ground.
You must remeber there are so many variable I dont see it proving a whole lot. Either way keep this thread updated
JJ
_________________
Honda CB1000

 

[LA-Lawman]

me too 8)

 

[LA-Lawman]

Are we gonna do this..

I was thinking...

10g tank...
20lbs of sand (aragonite or natures ocean live sand)
10-15lbs of LR (figi or marshal islands)
1 eheim liberty 200 filter ( cheap and easy to maintian)

.... then the lighting options. either a coule of NO bulbs or retro the NO fixtures with a CSL 32w or 55w smartlite....

any other ideas

 

[BallPy]

Any word on if we are going to do this.

 

[wombat1]

I think if this were to be attempted, the setup should be as follows:
10 gallon tanks
Autoclaved substrate at various depths (SD?)
One powerhead
One heater
Saltwater
Additions of ammonium chloride
Keep it simple, and easily repeatable. I think adding lights and live animals would just complicate the implications of what's going on in the system. If this approach gives significantly different results for the various depths, then start over with a LIVE sand bed, but keep everything else the same.

 

[Ravenous]

Count me in.

 

[Ravenous]

When do we start?

 

[skylsdale]

Sorry to neglect this thread, but I've been extremely busy with work the last few weeks and haven't had time for anything else.

Wombat, what you suggested as far as "test materials" is pretty much what I had in mind. If anyone sees anything that is crucial to add or subtract just speak up. There was another forum or two where I raised this question and there has been a decent level of response each time. I'll try to get something together over the next couple of weeks--maybe a rinky-dink website with general info and instructions/procedure for those interested, and when they have results they can send them to me and I'll post them.

Sound good?

 

[BallPy]

Just say when!!

PS- What about just using the standard 15" NO light that you normally get with a 10g?

 

[skylsdale]

PS- What about just using the standard 15" NO light that you normally get with a 10g?

I never spend the money on those hoods--I buy the bare tank($10) and a glass top and then retro something or use whatever extra light strips I have lying around (much more versatile in the long run IMO).

 

[BallPy]

I have a few if you want one for any reason.

 

[shalegac]

Should salt type be another issue? I hear alot of discussion as to what salts provide the right elements, and I know a few people who swear to particular brands for this reason. Just my 2 cents. I just started back up my 10 gallon and am interested with everybodys results and opinions. My sandbed is 3" with natures ocean live sand and south down mixed. It's been up for about 3 weeks (since the 1 week power outage) and I am going through the normal cylcles pretty fast, although I do have it stocked with a few damsles.

 

[wombat1]

Every little variable will be an issue. Even if you set up IDENTICAL tanks, I mean same equipment, same temperature, same water, in the same room, you will get very different results for each tank because of random variation. IMO, light isn't really necessary. If the objective is to observe how bacterial populations are utilizing nutrients with substrates of different depths, then a light will only complicate matters by allowing algae to grow. What if some folks have a brand new bulb, while others have one that's been in use for a year?