Anemone Help

[TTTBuster]

I have tried LTA, BTA, and carpets in my 70 reef they all died inside a week. All of my fish, corals and other invert are doing fine and growing. Why is it only the Anemones that I can not keep. My water test are fine pH 8.21, Sal 1.023 Temp 76f Ca 420. We will be moving soon and I will move everything into a 240 with the hope that larger tank will help. I only use a protien skimmer for filtration and 3 powerheads for water movement. Light 1 400 watt 6500k MH 1 VHO URI Actinic 1 VHO URI Aquasun each 110 watt. What am I doing wrong [/b]

 

[Biogeek]

Most likely the problem is that you are not getting a healthy animal to start with, but even then, they can be nursed back to health if you know what you are doing. I suspect that the most common problem that people have with these animals is that most are not really reef creatures at all, and they don't tend to do well in a traditional reef environment. I know myself how fascinating the relationship between the clownfish and their host anemones are, and it's what first got me into setting up a reef tank when I was a kid, but like most everyone else, I failed back then. I still generally try to discourage most hobbyists from ever purchasing one for their reef aquarium.

Despite the frequency with which I have overheard an employee in a petshop claim that "anemones are hardy animals that are easy to keep," they have a dismal success rate in captivity. In fact, in the most detailed study done to date found that even among experienced reefkeepers, only about 1 in 13 anemones survived for 3 years or more and only 1 in 32 anemones survived for 5 or more years in captivity (which by most accounts is considered success in this hobby). Even if we consider 5 years to be a ripe old age for these animals in an aquarium (for an organism with a natural lifespan more than 100 years, this is roughly the equivalent of considering rearing a human to 1 year as being a "success"), only 3% of anemones purchased ever make it to this age. If we consider only those reefkeepers with less than 2 years of experience, the average life expectency of an anemone was only about 3 months.

So, it is not overly surprising that you have not had much success with these animals. I think that many, if not most, articles on anemones leave out a critical piece of information that most hobbyists on the boards will tell you if you ask: namely that anemones should be left to only experienced reefkeepers, and even then, the vast majority of anemones do not survive in captivity. I feel that many aquarists are mislead by retailers into thinking that anemones are appropriate for even a beginners reef tank. This couldn't be further from the truth, and I have an article explaining this in greater detail online in the Reefs.org library (here), where Roni Talukdar also has a nice article on what it takes to keep an anemone in a reef tank (here). Finally, Ron Shimek also has a book out called Host Sea Anemone Secrets that would be a great resource if you decide that you really want to keep one of these animals in your aquarium.

I hope that helps you better understand what these animals need to survive in captivity, and you to decide better whether or not your tank is suitable to keep one of these animals. I wish you the best of luck if you decide to try again...

Rob

 

[delbeek]

Not to take anything away from Rob's recommendation and not to toot my/our horn(s) here too much but Sprung and Delbeek (1997. The Reef Aquarium volume II) contains what is still arguably the best two chapters on sea anemone biology and husbandry of any publication available to the average hobbyist. I am constantly amazed and disappointed to see it so rarely recommended to people looking for info and help on keeping anemones since, in my biased opinion :wink:, it really is still the best source in print. For whatever reason, it seems to be frequently ignored by authors writing for print and web-based publications. e.g. Oct. 2002 AFM, Shimek, R. 2002. Host anemones: Responsible care will ensure their survival. Aquarium Fish Magazine 14(10):54-63. :?: :?: :?:

JCD

 

[Biogeek]

I think that you're justified in tooting your own horn here, Charles
Charles is right that it is frequently overlooked, but Chapters 10 & 11 in D&S The Reef Aquarium Volume 2 is a great source of information about keeping host anemones, and I should have mentioned it the original post....

Rob

 

[929rrchico]

Well, I'm in the same boat here - and I've been doing this for about 3 years now. Have only had one or two fish actually die on me but I've had anemones die left and right on me. Usually within a weeks time or a months time. I have not read those books since no one has ever recommended them, but I've spoke to many people, even a couple of actual marine biologists and have read a few books on the subject - and I still cannot get them to stay alive.

Here is the water quality, aquarium setup:

72G
Pre-drilled
Wet-Dry
Protein Skimmer
Coralife 18 Watt UV Light (have tried with and without since this is argued most frequently on the keeping of anemones)
Mag Drive model 5 used for return
RIO 1700 with ball valve used for UV light

Calcium - have tried anywhere from 350 all the way up to 500 - currently at 450
Temperature - have tried from 78-82 since I have a chiller - curently at 79-80
Nitrates - 5
Nitrites - 0
Ammonia - 0
Phosphates - .25 at the most

Lighting:

Have tried (4) 65 power compacts as I've told lighting, lighting, lighting - after no success I tried and it's what currently on a regular 40W Actinic Blue and a 40W 10k Full Spectrum - both 48" - since others have said anemones do not benefit and in fact dislike that much light power.

As for food, I've tried a variety of clams, invert liquid food - they seem to love clams so it's not an overfeeding issue - usually I feed them one a week, sometime every two weeks (as I've been told once is sometime too much).

So, any help and or advide in the meantime, while I research for the book would be GREALTY appreciated.

 

[Maoiwowie]

I am currently keeping 2 carpets in my 150 reef, a green and a blue. These were transfered from my 40 gallon reef about 9 months ago. Both carpets are a little over a year old. There are no resident clowns in either but both once hosted a family of Nigripes Clowns which were lost to a 2 day power outage; yet the carpets survived no problems. I am really religious about my maintenance sans the testing of chemical levels. I use physical observation to determine general conditions. R.O water is a must for me and used after sitting for about a week with air. Phosphate and nitrate should be ZERO. Although minimum traces is tolerable but should be corrected as soon as possible. I do add iodine, strontium, trace elements, and use a CA reactor. My nutrient export is done with a protien skimmer and a refugium with plenum under a 6 in sand bed with macroalgae. I think this plays a crucial role with keeping water conditions stable.

Give your anemone a nice sand bed to rest its base at the bottom of the tank. Mine is 3 inches. They will bury themselves completely when frightened. My lighting consists of 4x175 watt 10K USHIO and 4x55 watt PC actinic. Both carpets sit at the bottom of my 24 in tank next to a live rock cave. I direct feed maybe once a month, but these 2 guys eat pellet food and anything else i feed my fish. The blue carpet is currently what looks like to be budding; which is fascinating to watch.

DD

 

[929rrchico]

what's your take on the lighting and could that be what's causing it - I have a total of 80 watts (1) 40W 10k and (1) 40W actinic blue. I realize some people say 3-4 even 4-5 watts per gallon, BUT, this is also an argument which many pro's seem to debate on - many say anemones don't need that much lighting and that 80W should be sufficient for my setup, then others say 216-285 should be ideal....SO, based on that, I would like to get the opion of people who actually have tried both or have had anemones for a while now......any thoughts on the subject????

thanks in advance.

 

[Maoiwowie]

929... I have been only keeping carpets and dont have much experience with others. My carpets dont move around (like the Ritteri) so i am assuming they are very comfortable with the lighting specs of this tank. IMO you are definitely low in the wattage department. In my original 40 gallon set-up i had 248 watts with mixed PCs. I like to keep in upwards of 6 to 9 watts per gallon; moreover i am using MH lighting now that is much more focused (single point) which allows me to place inverts that need light directly under the bulb (sps) and those that are sensitive, deeper or away from direct light. These 2 carpets (haddoni, i believe) sit directly under my bulb at the bottom of the tank (24 inches) in deep sand; there is no shadowing. I use 10K and do believe the German bulbs (Ushio) are better than the american counterparts. What started out as fist size blobs in my 40gal are now small pizza pies.

Cheers,
DD

 

[929rrchico]

ok - I just ended up getting a power compact from Coralife which has 192Watts - 1 10k and 1 actinic.
192W should be enough since it's power compact and the lu. is much higher than regular bulbs, so the wattage does not really apply here - at least that's my understanding and what i've been told my many people.

also, the only other thing is the water hardness, if I use the tetra test kit for dKH it's at 14, if I use the Hagen KH test, it's at 250. So based on that number, is that too high....called the local fishstore and they said 14 was fine....

 

[929rrchico]

Here is a pic of the fish in question:

Note: There is nothing superficial on the actual skin.

[/b]

 

[Maoiwowie]

929...i believe you will see improvement with your anemones, however you definitely will have to monitor them closely because each individual will react differently to different enviroment changes. I dont think you are on the "overkill" side yet with the wattage so goodluck. Sounds like one of your test kits is off with the hardness. How do you dose Ca?

DD

 

[929rrchico]

for calcium I'm using Kent Marin's Tech A and Tech B (2 part) product, but also, most frequently I've been suing Kent Marine Turbo Calcium.

 

[delbeek]

929 - As Simon would say "I don't mean to be rude but ..." ... instead of spening money on extra equipment and animals why not step back ... spend some money and time on some good resources and read them as both Rob and I suggested? It will probably save you money in the long run not to mention anemone lives and your sanity.

As was mentioned, anemone species are VERY different in their care and habitat requirements, not all are found living on reef structures some are while others grow in sandy or muddy areas. So there are no generalities
when it comes to anemome care.

Finally I would be wary of "experts" who make claims based more on theory as opposed to actual long-term experience.

Aloha!
JCD

 

[929rrchico]

delbeek - not rude at all and I will take any advice due to all the money I've invested in the tanks. As for reading, I'll be honest with you, I'm almost done reading the materials referenced here and other sites and not one book was able to properly or correctly referenced any of the problems I was having or symptoms.

As for the problems based on my own observations and that which I actually recorded with a camera were that 2 of the fish were fighting and led to stress - no diseases as pointed out by many, many folks. As the discoloration of the fish would go away within a short time and then come back. As for the carpet anemone I finally noticed that the semicirculatus was nipping at it and because of it, did not stand a chance. As for lighting, I found that what many people referenced for lighting does not apply when using power compacts or metal halide lights - that's based on my own experience and implementation.

This is not to say that others are wrong, but this is to say that based on my experience, climate conditions, surroundings, stock and equipment I've had no luck listening to other experts as they claim to be. I did, however; have good luck with an actual Marine Biologist I came across which I can say truly knew what the issue was, identified it and corrected it for me - best of all, he was able to tell me why, which seems to be the irony in this area, people know something work but not why...

In any case, delbek I thank you for your advice, and as I said earlier, whether good or bad, I will glady welcome any advice, suggestion or anything of the like - I think you can understand/related when you have spent thousands to keep a healthy and promisable aquarium.

 

[delbeek]

I looked through this thread and could not find any reference to the Koran angelfish or any other fish for that matter. You posted a picture of the fish and said this is the fish in question ... but other than that, no mention of why the pic was posted. I didn't even stop to consider that this fish was in the same tank as your anemone ... but yes, they do eat them! As you have found out. Hopefully you have found the problem and all your other factors are correct.

Best of luck!

J. Charles Delbeek, M.Sc.