Are ethical debates about reefkeeping worthwhile?

[Len]

In light of what's been discussed in this community lately, I'm curious what others think. I know what I think about the question

 

[gmiller123456]

Well of course they are. Doesn't everyone turn to strangers on the Internet for moral guidance? :twisted:

 

[Anonymous]

I think they are critical.
But we need to learn to disagree withought taking it personally.


And damn you Len for stealing next weeks weekly discussion! :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

I think they are critical.
But we need to learn to disagree withought taking it personally.

Yep :!:

 

[Anonymous]

We need people to get excited about preserving marine life - sadly so many view it with that same anthro-uber view that it's ours for the pillaging and seems inexhastible.

There was a new study out recently by John Pandolfi, a paleobiologist with the Smithsonian, pointing out how much damage we have done to the reefs even in pre-industrial times.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/08 ... eefs.reut/

A little more information on his study here:

http://www.nmnh.si.edu/paleo/curator_cvs/pandolfi.html

Ethics are at the core of this issue - to not discuss and debate them is to stay ignorant of the havoc we have wreaked and blissfully ignorant of the end of reef life in our lifetimes.

Unlike some, I actually think our hobby has a minor role in keeping the reefs somewhat commercially important for live animals instead of just for the souvenier , building and food markets in most local reef economies.

And whoever invented 'coral calcium' needs to get kicked in the bozack.

 

[Bone]

We're all on shakey ground right off the bat. We are all evil and selfish in that we decided to have an aquarium to begin with. After the brutal catch and transport it doesn't matter how poorly we treat these animals, they've likely seen worse treatment. 8O

 

[Anonymous]

I don't agree that it doesn't matter how badly we treat them because they have seen worse.

 

[Bone]

Why should anyone be concerned with ethics when they have already accepted the destruction and death caused by the collection of the animals in their living room?

 

[reefsRcool]

one of the reasons i have been frequenting less is this continual argument. yes in some way we are all guilty of destroying the reefs but i cannot lump a guy who is fraging corals and making the most of what he has taken in with some of these idiots who just don't care. I truely believe that one day the natural reefs will die. now we can let it go or we can try to keep and get as much of it to reproduce as possible. maybe one day it will be up to us to restock the oceans. don't laugh it could happen. it just makes me sick the way some people are, I'm not sure if it would be better to ignore them and hope they go away or lecture endlessly and hope they get the point. i cannot get excited about doing either though, so i just don't log in as much.

 

[Anonymous]

Why should anyone be concerned with ethics when they have already accepted the destruction and death caused by the collection of the animals in their living room?

So they can be honest with themselves.

 

[Expos Forever]

Maybe someone reading this thread is unaware of the industry forum:

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=35

IMO this is a must read for anybody that worries about the impact of our hobby.

 

[Bone]

This is the dichotomy we aquarists face. When I am honest with myself I realize that it is wrong to have an aquarium at all, but I have decided to have one out of selfishness so I make the best of it and take care of the critters to the best of my ability. But I can't say this is being honest with myself.

FWIW, I voted yes to the poll.

 

[Expos Forever]

Should somebody happen along this thread a year from now we should probably link to the thread that inspired this one...

http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35064

 

[John_Brandt]

And whoever invented 'coral calcium' needs to get kicked in the bozack.

 

[dizzy]

I think these debates are entertaining, but accomplish very little. It's a bit like watching the donkeys and elephants battle it out on CNN or MSNBC. Everyone gets loud and tries to out-argue everyone on the opposite side, but in the end everyone seems to leave with the same opinions they came into it with. You ever heard the saying "he's so stupid he's happy"? Our discussions tend to make people both less stupid and less happy.

 

[Anonymous]

I disagree with that assertion, Mitch.

 

[Anonymous]

Oh yes..coral calcium. We can thank one Mr. Bob Barefoot (I kid you NOT) for that. :evil:

When I contacted a rep from the company and asked about it, I was assured that they knew it was from real coral because it came from living coral. However, when I posted about it no one got very upset about it.

 

[Mogo]

I have to agree with Bone. Keeping fish in a glass container in my living room is unethical unless I can breed them and return more fish to the ocean than I originally took out. Or unless I'm breeding endangered species that are otherwise doomed in their natural habitat.

 

[ztw]

Isn't it a bit heavy to say it is unethical to keep a saltwater/reef aquarium? I think that shows that the person saying this may have limited personal knowledge about the real causes of destruction of reefs. From what I have read, no personal knowledge, is that this hobby has a slight positive effect. So, the hobby likely has at most an insignificant effect on the reefs. Care for your animals as you would any pet and be personally moral in your care, but please don't try to tell me and other hobbyists that we are immoral or unethical. The hobby is enjoyed by many folks and it seems a bit much to be on a high horse and deem that the hobby is immoral or unethical. Why would anyone with these types of feelings ever get into this hobby? Why not keep freshwater were you can get all captive bred and not try to put a guilt trip on everyone that enjoys this hobby and are not unethical. My vote, these debates are pointless due to the lack of real knowledge by those proposing the sky is falling. No, I don't have my head buried in the sand on the issue, but when someone says that the "destruction" of the reefs began before this hobbby ever started than how would you conclude this hobby is unethical?

 

[Anonymous]

We cannot hope to breed animals captively and return them to the wild. They simply do not fare well. What we CAN hope for is to replace wild collection with captive-bred and raised animals.

I feel that it is of EMINENT importance to discuss these issues, and I feel it should be taken beyond reef-keeping, to encompass the ethics of many husbandry practices of many animals kept in the home.