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metal halide pendants
- Thread starter esmithiii
- Start date
Thanks Ernie, but doesn't that seem like an awful lot of light? 500 watts would give me 10 watts per gallon. Again, I don't mean to question your experience, but I thought I'd be looking at 3-4 WPG to meet my needs. Can you recommend a particular manufacturer of decent pendant lighting. I've checked into a few on the web, but always look for someone's personal experience. Thanks again.
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This is not a good idea. Why not do your research and decide what corals you want to keep, then pick the appropriate lighting? I use a iwasaki (6500k) 250w pendant over my 15g sps minireef with pfo ballast but that is not necessary for a softie tank and would fry non-shaded mushrooms so it matters. Ease of keeping varies and sps/lps/soft is not a perfect guide. One of the easiest corals to keep is a pavona which is an sps coral that thrives under relatively high lighting levels, so it really makes a big difference specifically what you want to keep. Always decide on your critters/biotope first. Lighting, circulation, and practically everything else, should be designed around your critters.
I'd want to keep a few easy corals (not even sure which, as I have not researched).
This is not a good idea. Why not do your research and decide what corals you want to keep, then pick the appropriate lighting? I use a iwasaki (6500k) 250w pendant over my 15g sps minireef with pfo ballast but that is not necessary for a softie tank and would fry non-shaded mushrooms so it matters. Ease of keeping varies and sps/lps/soft is not a perfect guide. One of the easiest corals to keep is a pavona which is an sps coral that thrives under relatively high lighting levels, so it really makes a big difference specifically what you want to keep. Always decide on your critters/biotope first. Lighting, circulation, and practically everything else, should be designed around your critters.
I'm looking to upgrade my lighting, (which having only NO lights, anything is an upgrade). However my one tank is a 56 gal. (30x18x25) and I'm slowly taking it in the direction of a small reef. My question is; I'd like to use pendant lighting as I'm not a bit fan of canopies. What would be an adequate set-up. I'm looking at a 175 W, but am confused by all the darn variations in kelvins, etc.. I'd want to keep a few easy corals (not even sure which, as I have not researched). Any suggestions with regards to this, whether it be brand names, watts, etc. Thanks in advance.
That is a nice tank to do a reef in, almost bought one myself! 2poor makes a good point! You should research what types of corals you want to keep beforehand!!
IMO watts per gallon is more of a guide if you are using fluorescent lighting. If you go with Metal Halide lighting the watts pre gallon isn't the issue, only the depth of the tank. For your tank ,I would say a 175 watter would be fine to keep soft corals under. With this wattage, givin the bulb was a 6500k , anything placed within 8 inches of the surface would be considered in high light. Past that would be medium light. With 250 watts high light would go to a depth of about 14 inches ,and with 400 watts 24 inches is still high light.
Now as for Kelvin ,with 6500k you still need actinic lighting to aid in coral groth. With 10'000k and higher ,there is enough actinic lighting mixed in to use only a halide bulb. But ,heres the catch. With 6500k bulbs you get higher growth rates ,less colloration. With 20'000k bulbs you get very good colloration but slower growth rates. Go to Marine Depot.com ,there you will find (under metal Halide lighting), pictures of the differant collors the differant kelvin bulbs put out.
As for a pendant, I would go with a PFO Horizontal pendant. I had a bell pendant over my 29gal ,and the output sucked!! I had a 175 6500k bulb ,and the collor was too yellow. Switched to a horizontal pendant and not only was the collor more white ,but also twice as intence! I would say a 250 watt 10'000k would suit most of your needs just fine. Just hang the light about 2 inches from the surface of the water. And remember ,coral placement is the key!!!
Sorry this post is so long, feel free to email me if you feel the need.
Good Luck!!
C Mitchell
IMO watts per gallon is more of a guide if you are using fluorescent lighting. If you go with Metal Halide lighting the watts pre gallon isn't the issue, only the depth of the tank. For your tank ,I would say a 175 watter would be fine to keep soft corals under. With this wattage, givin the bulb was a 6500k , anything placed within 8 inches of the surface would be considered in high light. Past that would be medium light. With 250 watts high light would go to a depth of about 14 inches ,and with 400 watts 24 inches is still high light.
Now as for Kelvin ,with 6500k you still need actinic lighting to aid in coral groth. With 10'000k and higher ,there is enough actinic lighting mixed in to use only a halide bulb. But ,heres the catch. With 6500k bulbs you get higher growth rates ,less colloration. With 20'000k bulbs you get very good colloration but slower growth rates. Go to Marine Depot.com ,there you will find (under metal Halide lighting), pictures of the differant collors the differant kelvin bulbs put out.
As for a pendant, I would go with a PFO Horizontal pendant. I had a bell pendant over my 29gal ,and the output sucked!! I had a 175 6500k bulb ,and the collor was too yellow. Switched to a horizontal pendant and not only was the collor more white ,but also twice as intence! I would say a 250 watt 10'000k would suit most of your needs just fine. Just hang the light about 2 inches from the surface of the water. And remember ,coral placement is the key!!!
Sorry this post is so long, feel free to email me if you feel the need.
Good Luck!!
C Mitchell
The only reason I say no to pendants is : HID bulbs put off the most light(lumens) when burnt horizontally. If you want to get the most out of your halides, do the canopy thing or buy a hood that holds the bulbs horizontally..
[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: mariner ]</p>
[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: mariner ]</p>
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Watts per gallon is a terrible measure of lighting. What is important is the following:
<ul type="square">[*]Height of tank[*]Distance from lights to water[*]Types of lighting (MH, NO, VHO, PC, Etc)[*]Height of liverock in the tank[*]Lenght and width of tank[*]Reflectors used[*]Intensity of bulbs[*]Spectrum of bulbs[*]Orientation of bulbs[*]Type of livestock you wish to keep
[/list]
Using the term watts/gallon oversimplifies the issue too much.
2Poor has an excellent point about determining first what you plan on keeping. For clams and SPS corals, metal halides are the way to go.
The tank you have is 25" tall (I believe) The height of the tank is one of the most important determining factors, IMO, in choosing the intensity of lighting.
FWIW in my 180G (much bigger than yours, but only 24" deep) I have 3 x 400W metal halides + 4 x 96W PC actinics. (only 2 of the metal halides are operational, but the third will be soon.) I do not think that 2x250W will be too much for your tank. I think that you will regret buying 175W bulbs later when you want to keep SPS and clams, or even more so when you upgrade to a larger tank.
Ernie
500 watts would give me 10 watts per gallon
Watts per gallon is a terrible measure of lighting. What is important is the following:
<ul type="square">[*]Height of tank[*]Distance from lights to water[*]Types of lighting (MH, NO, VHO, PC, Etc)[*]Height of liverock in the tank[*]Lenght and width of tank[*]Reflectors used[*]Intensity of bulbs[*]Spectrum of bulbs[*]Orientation of bulbs[*]Type of livestock you wish to keep
[/list]
Using the term watts/gallon oversimplifies the issue too much.
2Poor has an excellent point about determining first what you plan on keeping. For clams and SPS corals, metal halides are the way to go.
The tank you have is 25" tall (I believe) The height of the tank is one of the most important determining factors, IMO, in choosing the intensity of lighting.
FWIW in my 180G (much bigger than yours, but only 24" deep) I have 3 x 400W metal halides + 4 x 96W PC actinics. (only 2 of the metal halides are operational, but the third will be soon.) I do not think that 2x250W will be too much for your tank. I think that you will regret buying 175W bulbs later when you want to keep SPS and clams, or even more so when you upgrade to a larger tank.
Ernie
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mariner:
<strong>The only reason I say no to pendants is : HID bulbs put off the most light(lumens) when burnt horizontally. If you want to get the most out of your halides, do the canopy thing or buy a hood that holds the bulbs horizontally..</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are correct but... some bulbs i.e. the Iwasaki is available in a BV style or base verticle and fire best in that position.... that said, the PFO pendents recommended above are HORIZONTAL pendants and not the bell shaped Hamilton or Coralife style.
Another lighting solution that would work very well would be a pair of Giesemann NOVA II 150W Double-ended (HQI) pendants. In one of Sanjay's recent tests a 150W DE bulb in it's fixture (i.e. with reflector) put out more PPFD(PAR) than a 400W Iwasaki sans reflector.
<strong>The only reason I say no to pendants is : HID bulbs put off the most light(lumens) when burnt horizontally. If you want to get the most out of your halides, do the canopy thing or buy a hood that holds the bulbs horizontally..</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are correct but... some bulbs i.e. the Iwasaki is available in a BV style or base verticle and fire best in that position.... that said, the PFO pendents recommended above are HORIZONTAL pendants and not the bell shaped Hamilton or Coralife style.
Another lighting solution that would work very well would be a pair of Giesemann NOVA II 150W Double-ended (HQI) pendants. In one of Sanjay's recent tests a 150W DE bulb in it's fixture (i.e. with reflector) put out more PPFD(PAR) than a 400W Iwasaki sans reflector.
(Laughing) As you can see ,lighting is a very big subject! Heck ,you could dedicate an intire book to just lighting alone!! And if you asked 100 differant people what type of lighting to use ,you'll get 100 differant answers!! Thats because there are about 1000 differant ways to do it!! (lol)
So I guess the best advise I can give you ,has already been givin. Research! First what types of corals you,ll want to keep ,then what type of lighting best suits there needs, and finally what type of lighting loks best to you! But when you do decide on your lighting ,keep one thing in mind!! I think we all can admit that once we had our tanks just the way we wanted them ,and our reefs were thriving with a vast array of corals and fish ,we felt the need for one more thing!! A BIGGER TANK!!!
Having said that ,buy a lighing system that will give you the freedom to upgrade it to a bigger system!! Because mark my words! YOU WILL!!!!
Keep it fun!!
C Mitchell
So I guess the best advise I can give you ,has already been givin. Research! First what types of corals you,ll want to keep ,then what type of lighting best suits there needs, and finally what type of lighting loks best to you! But when you do decide on your lighting ,keep one thing in mind!! I think we all can admit that once we had our tanks just the way we wanted them ,and our reefs were thriving with a vast array of corals and fish ,we felt the need for one more thing!! A BIGGER TANK!!!
Having said that ,buy a lighing system that will give you the freedom to upgrade it to a bigger system!! Because mark my words! YOU WILL!!!!
Keep it fun!!
C Mitchell
Thanks everyone. I know that the subject of lighting carries many diverse opinions and options. Given the size of this particular tank and the fact that it would be my first endeavor into a reef set-up (I've run both tanks as FO for the last three years) I really want to keep it simple. I have studied "a bit" on some corals and know what I like/want. One of my lfs maintains a very nice selection. I'd like to try my hand with some beginner corals if there are such a thing. I like the look of mushrooms, button polyps, leathers and frogspawn. Now I don't want to pack the tank full but to give it some variety and color, along with the few fish I keep in it. Thanks for clarifying the WPG issue, as with FO tanks that is all you really hear about. Champion Lighting has the horizontal fixtures in 175, 250 and 400 watt and these are in my price range. Again, I don't want to break the bank with this particular tank. I'm planning a 150 later this year which may be strictly FO, however if the reef experiment goes well, I may just go all out with the bigger tank. I also don't plan to upgrade anything on this smaller tank so want something that is going to fit the bill down the road. Now, given the choice of corals I have mentioned, is a 175w adequate for a 25 inch tank or should I look to a higher output. Would the 400w be the way to go and what would be a good kelvin rating for the lamp? I really hope I'm not sounding ignorant here, and I will research a lot more before doing anything, but as stated, with such a difference of opinions, I like to see what others have done and what has worked for them. Also, with regards to pendant lighting; open top? covered? with what? I'm not totally opposed to idea of a canopy, but like the simplicity of an open top. Again, thank you for the sound advice.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
If you stick to low-light LPS corals (frogspawn and the like) and soft corals, the 175W is probably enough light. I still think that in 6 months you might want some more light demanding corals, maybe even some SPS and clams. Also, if you plan on using the 10,000K bulbs with no actinic supplementation, they put out less PAR than the 6,500K bulbs, and therefore you would want to go with the stronger bulbs. I still recommend that you go with the 2 250W pendants using 10,000K bulbs.
Ernie
Now, given the choice of corals I have mentioned, is a 175w adequate for a 25 inch tank or should I look to a higher output. Would the 400w be the way to go and what would be a good kelvin rating for the lamp?
If you stick to low-light LPS corals (frogspawn and the like) and soft corals, the 175W is probably enough light. I still think that in 6 months you might want some more light demanding corals, maybe even some SPS and clams. Also, if you plan on using the 10,000K bulbs with no actinic supplementation, they put out less PAR than the 6,500K bulbs, and therefore you would want to go with the stronger bulbs. I still recommend that you go with the 2 250W pendants using 10,000K bulbs.
Ernie
Thanks Ernie. I like your reasoning and don't want to cut corners. I can get the 250w for $240.00 each. Given the width of the tank, I'm leaning toward the bell pendants. Two would enable me to avoid that spotlight look in the center of the tank. I'm going to do some more homework. Appreciate the help from all you experienced reefers.
"I had a bell pendant over my 29gal ,and the output sucked!"
I don't know about your situation, but I have read somewhere that the vertical pendant lights give a better spectrum that the horizonal one's. Someone help me out here if you can. In the mean time I will try to find it.
I don't know about your situation, but I have read somewhere that the vertical pendant lights give a better spectrum that the horizonal one's. Someone help me out here if you can. In the mean time I will try to find it.
The bell pendants are designed to reflect the light downward. Output may be less than if they were mounted horizontally, but it is the only way that I know of to run MH lamps w/ out a canopy of some sort.
I have seen the bell-shaped fixtures in action, and they were bright!
Ernie
I have seen the bell-shaped fixtures in action, and they were bright!
Ernie
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